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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: How the West was Won at the Bradford Widescreen Weekend.
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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-22-2009 08:49 AM
Based on current practice, and given that Cinerama is full-frame 6-perf, it looks like to emulate the experience digitally you would need to scan each panel at 4000 x 4500 "resolution" (approx.), yielding a combined pixel count of 12000 x 4500.
You then need to somehow display that, pixel-for-pixel.
The real answer of course is a new all-film Cinerama production. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
It could be done with philanthropic grants (along with private investment) if carried out as a new travelogue, documentary or drama-documentary, with a relatively short running time (say 40 minutes).
As a not-for-profit venture it would not be subject to box office recoupment (obviously), would provide new material for Bradford, Seattle and the Cinerama Dome and even stimulate the opening of one or two more public Cinerama venues worldwide.
With current stocks like Vision 3 and given the high-resolution nature of the format, the results could be incredible.
quote: Stephen Furley
the few reels which were restored of one of the Kinopanorama films, which were shown at the Widescreen Weekend last year
I thought these looked absolutely stunning and this prompted the idea.
What one would also need is a top post-production supervisor who would develop a new Cinerama workflow, and perhaps today's lab techniques and technology could address panel matching issues in a way that wasn't possible back in the 1950s.
quote: Thomas Hauerslev
Some years ago Darren showed the sTEM footage on the curve, and it looked spectacular. Some of it originated from 65mm
Interestingly there weren't any significant focus problems that I could see in that demonstration. Maybe there was far greater depth of focus available; I don't know exactly what kit was used.
[EDIT: Corrected Cinerama venues]
[ 01-26-2009, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Brian Guckian ]
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 01-25-2009 07:50 AM
I think Mark’s proposal would be something worth doing. It would show how digital Cinerama would look and it could attract interest from the industry. But this would be costly. Bradford would have to hire two extra digital projectors just for the screening and dismantle two Cinerama projectors to make room for the digital ones (I gather there is no room for both the film and the digital projectors to share it). It would be indeed very interesting and something worth seeing and very close to the original Cinerama experience. Now that digital is converting IMAX into a mere enhanced conventional cinema experience, it would be good that something interesting came out of digital, and digital cinerama could be the answer. I do not think there would be the need for three projectionists with three digital projectors and issues that plagued Cinerama’s projections would be solved with digital.
But a 2k single lens screening seems something very far away from the Cinerama experience. As Stephen says, it would be great if this was an anamorphic digital print with correction on the sides to allow for the geometry of the curve, like the ultrapanavision prints rectified for Cinerama screens, but I do not think this is the case. I do not think it should be that difficult to do it digitally since prints are so cheap to produce, it would be necessary to apply some compression on the sides I gather. Of course, if it is not done, there should be distortion on the sides.
As for the sound, it is a pity it will be in 5.1. I wonder if they are using the home video sound mix. The original Cinerama sound is gorgeous, and albeit as Thomas says it is old, it still sounds powerful and full and warm.
And so, a priori, it seems we will be losing on resolution, we will get distortion on the sides and the sound won’t have the original configuration. We will gain in not having the panel lines and the lack of scratches.
The Bradford print is obviously worn, but it still shows how good dye transfer was. The best solution would be to show the new print they have in the USA, but that would cost a lot of money.
Nevertheless, this brings an interesting point here. Museums like Bradford have been great in replicating film technology history. I think many of us want to see that film history and its technology replicated as close as possible. This is why we travel from far away, to experience something we cannot experience locally. I think it would be great if film had the funds and respect other art expressions have and Cinerama films could be enjoyed the way they were meant to be enjoyed. But this costs a lot of money and the funding does not seem to be there. I go to Bradford to recreate the experience of 70mm, original Cinerama, and new 35mm prints or old 35mm dye transfer prints and I wish they showed some VistaVision dye transfer prints more often. I certainly would not go to Bradford to see a 2k digital print of an old film, which is something very common in London itself and nothing especially exciting.
As to digital as a future technology for new widescreen films, well, 2k is no longer cutting edge (if indeed it ever was cutting edge) and with IMAX new digital technology and the new advances in the field that Julio mentions, it would be great if Bradford had the funds to upgrade its digital projection system to equal it to their film projection system. I think this thread should be in the straight to video forum ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 01-25-2009 02:52 PM
They have their own print of HTWW and so I suppose it is difficult to justify the expense of bringing the new print from the USA. But indeed they have in the past brought some other Cinerama prints to Bradford from the USA, but they were very faded, since they were not dye transfer prints, unlike HTWW. Yes, Stephen, I think you are right and they are showing the digital print to test how it looks, yet, it would have been great if a digital rectified print could have been produced for Bradford's Cinerama's screen. I am going this year since the programme is very good and I like to support the WW, but I do not know yet if I will go to the digital screening of HTWWW since it does not seem it can improve on the original, yet I should not speak without seeing it
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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 01-26-2009 01:49 PM
When artistic decisions are made it is inevitable that there will be discrepancies. I remember the heated debate that quite often happens in Bradford about films being screened on the curve or the flat screen. Luckily, I stay out of that debate and I am happy with whatever is decided
I understand the interest some people would have in seeing this digital print on the curve, although it won’t be digital Cinerama, as Mark says it would resemble more the screening of old Cinerama films on single strip, albeit with less resolution than a 70mm print but it seems that with a wider aspect ratio than the 70mm prints had. Digital Cinerama would be what Mark proposed of having three digital projectors and that would certainly interest me since it could mean the use of digital for something more exciting than what it is being used for now.
I personally go to Bradford for the experience of the old technology, hopefully with new prints. I would also go for something new and exciting in the digital realm (for new films only), like 4K or higher or the double projector system IMAX is using or, why not, digital Cinerama, if that ever happens, but 2K is certainly not exciting, actually it is rather boring, nor cutting edge. Nevertheless, I do agree that there must be room for everybody during the festival and I think that debate is always interesting.
My fear is that constant digital use by festivals will cause studios stop producing film prints. I remember reading recently that Grover Crisp from Columbia was complaining that Cannes is only showing digital and so they would not show any of his lovely film restorations (there are many widescreen films restored by him).
And so, I do fully understand that people have interest in trying out new things and I am not criticising this. I just happen to be one of the purists Mr Feltenstein talks about in his interview.
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