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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: Would you trade a new Horizon 5565 for a Used Century Projector/Christy Platter?
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Joshua Waaland
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 800
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-02-2009 04:00 PM
quote: Ian Parfrey
This isn't a dump on Chinese equipment but it is built to a price-period. You pays your money, you gets your dues.
Sure it is. I can't remember EVER seeing anything come from China in my lifetime that had any decent amount of quality to it. They make cheap products for cheap prices for a throw away society.
Everyone wants cheaper products and higher wages so companies are forced to have things made overseas with cheap labor and cheap materials. There is no reason people should be making over twenty dollars an hour at auto factories in the US pushing a button then sitting down to read the paper for the rest of their shift. I have been in enough of them to see it first hand and known plenty of people that do it. Then everyone is wondering why cars cost $30-$40,000 but are still junk.
Everyone bags on Wal-Mart for supporting the Chinese market and not letting labor unions in. Why do people keep shopping there then? If people wouldn't buy there then Wal-Mart would be forced to do something else. The fact of the matter is everyone wants to buy at cheap prices but get paid the big bucks when they go to work and not do anything for their pay.
The company I work for even has a small factory over there that makes some of our consumables. It is a very heavy product yet we can make it over there, ship it here and still undercut any domestic manufacturer's price by a decent margin. I don't like it but unfortunately this is how you have to survive in today's business world. The rest of our products are manufactured in Toronto and we cannot compete with all of the foreign knock-offs that have come on the scene in the last five years. I used to see customers that cared about quality and sometimes I still do, but once the requisition hits the purchasing agent's desk, the penny pinchers have the last say and they usually buy cheap foreign crap. The best part is after about a year or so they sometimes end up buying ours anyways because of all the downtime they experience with the cheap stuff.
The president of our company spends a lot of time overseas and some of it in China. One of our engineers is also Chinese and I have gotten to talk with both of them at length about the corruption of the Chinese political system and their business practices. If the stories that I have heard are true, they will do just about anything to make a buck even if it's unethical.
Get your money back on that foreign Horizon crap and buy something better for cheaper. Even a rebuilt Century would be light years ahead of that junk and would cost half as much.
Keep your eye out and check out ebay. There is a ton of stuff coming out of the theaters in the past year from people switching to digital. I have bought a lot of stuff from large chains that have switched over and are selling off all of their film equipment. Just look at all of the Dolby CP-500 units on ebay in the last three weeks. Previous to that they were few and far between. Now they are a dime a dozen but are still fetching a good price. Six months from now they will have lost their value because they are flooding the market. I have seen equipment on ebay go from the thousands one month, to hundreds the next. DTS units used to fetch $2,500 or more a year or two ago but you can't get $750 for one on ebay now even if it has the reader with it.
[ 03-02-2009, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Joshua Waaland ]
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-04-2009 05:10 PM
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Eh, Wrong! Not my opinion. Its DCIP's opinion. Perhaps you should think about attending the DCIP meeting in Burbank comming up that will allow you to see 3-D run at all different light levels timed for it and not.
Cool...do you have any of that in writing in the form of a specification from a distributor? I've seen the documentation that does not specify light levels that high for as recent a movie as Coraline...their max was 5.5fL.
The realities are...if a movie is timed for 4.5fL than running at 7fL CAN'T look better in terms of highs to lows because there won't be any lows...the black levels come up with the whites..thems the facts and you can't get around it. Then again, you are working with Silver screens so you have 7fL in the center and only 3.5fL once you are a mere 20-degrees off center...perhaps that is why you don't see the black leve issue. Then again, color satuation again zooms up when you nearly double the output...at one point on the screen. No matter how you dance around it, the image is wrong.
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One thing is very clear and that is that 3-5 fl is way too dim for an enjoyable watch
Agreed. 3D does make the image suffer in that respect. Everything has a bit of an overcast look to it. There is a reason that 14fL is the white level on 2D digital. At least on Dolby, with a proper screen, it is 3-5fL everywhere...not 1-5 on a typical silver screen installation or 1.5-7fL in your installations.
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I agree but not 100% on the image warping thing. If the chips were larger say around 3K so we had pixels to waste then it would be fine. Otherwise image warping is going to get you more or less the exact same pixel loss as using the masking.
This is true...however, the loss is in the resolution, not in the critical information. That is, subtitles or other valuable image is kept on the screen or prevented from appearing skewed, warped, slanted....etc. A reasonable trade off. If there were 3K chips, so much the better. And if they had 4K chips, they would approach film's resolution...for the worst 35mm release format.
Steve
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Benjamin Speed
Film Handler
Posts: 6
From: Franklin, Maine, U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 03-05-2009 08:27 AM
Hello,
Thanks to everyone for their comments and support. Before we pursue a refund for the machine, we are gathering more information from the dealer to see if the swap is worth our while. Here are some answers they supplied for our questions:
1) Would there be any cost to us for this swap? No.
2) Is any of the equipment rebuilt, or is it all just used? Used.
3) What year was this projector manufactured? ?
4) Do you know how many hours the projector has on it? How many? Unknown
5) Can you tell me what kind of theater this came from? Multiplex, art house, 2 screen? Unknown
6) What kind of lamp house and rectifier would come with this projector? Orcon 2k
7) Does this Century have an R3 sound head? ?
8) Will the lenses and bulbs we currently have fit this Century projector? Yes
9) How old is the AW-3 platter? Does it have removable brains? Get S/N? Brains. The platters are probably 10-12 years old. We had 70 of them with removable brains but sold them all recently; the only ones left do not have removable brains.
10) In my research of rebuilt Centuries I’ve found the price to be below what was paid for the new 5565. Would you be able to include a make-up table and or possibly include some hours of service or even better some kind of warranty to make up the difference? We sell new Horizon systems for about the same price as used domestic systems.
11) Can you send me the dimensions of this equipment? One concern is space and we just want to make sure it will fit. ? Our technician says it's tight but will fit.
12) What kind of time frame would be involved if this swap were to move forward? How long from when we make a decision would it take to complete the swap and installation? Obviously scheduling for all parties would need to be consider, mainly our technicians and yours. Equip available now; Our technician to coordinate schedule.
13) Finally, just so we can give our superiors complete information, what is your return policy? And why would we not be able to get a full refund and return the equipment? Horizon return policy published on-line at www.horizonprojection.com. I've never seen a projector company with a refund policy; we exchange or refund unused lenses with a re-stocking charge.
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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God
Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 03-05-2009 12:59 PM
quote: Benjamin Speed
1) Would there be any cost to us for this swap? No.
2) Is any of the equipment rebuilt, or is it all just used? Used.
3) What year was this projector manufactured? ?
4) Do you know how many hours the projector has on it? How many? Unknown
5) Can you tell me what kind of theater this came from? Multiplex, art house, 2 screen? Unknown
6) What kind of lamp house and rectifier would come with this projector? Orcon 2k
7) Does this Century have an R3 sound head? ?
8) Will the lenses and bulbs we currently have fit this Century projector? Yes
9) How old is the AW-3 platter? Does it have removable brains? Get S/N? Brains. The platters are probably 10-12 years old. We had 70 of them with removable brains but sold them all recently; the only ones left do not have removable brains.
10) In my research of rebuilt Centuries I’ve found the price to be below what was paid for the new 5565. Would you be able to include a make-up table and or possibly include some hours of service or even better some kind of warranty to make up the difference? We sell new Horizon systems for about the same price as used domestic systems.
11) Can you send me the dimensions of this equipment? One concern is space and we just want to make sure it will fit. ? Our technician says it's tight but will fit.
12) What kind of time frame would be involved if this swap were to move forward? How long from when we make a decision would it take to complete the swap and installation? Obviously scheduling for all parties would need to be consider, mainly our technicians and yours. Equip available now; Our technician to coordinate schedule.
13) Finally, just so we can give our superiors complete information, what is your return policy? And why would we not be able to get a full refund and return the equipment? Horizon return policy published on-line at www.horizonprojection.com. I've never seen a projector company with a refund policy; we exchange or refund unused lenses with a re-stocking charge.
Benjamin, get an attorney RIGHT NOW and sue that asshole dealer!! And be sure to post their name on the "Deadbeats In the Industry" thread!!
My answers to their answers:
1: Damn right there better not be any charge.
2: Ripoff again, used equip. can be had for a LOT less than the $13k you paid; it's possible to get a Christie package NEW for that price;
3: They are dumbasses. A search with the serial numbers can get that info;
4: That is difficult to answer as it may have been around in several different booths..the first honest thing those jackalopes have said so far;
5:Bullshit, they should be able to tell you the last known location of that equipment..unless they stole it or otherwise bought it under shady means. It sounds like they're trying to give you back your old equipment.
6: See Brad's post above, ORC is JUNK!! And as Mark pointed out, it's parts are NLA. (No Longer Available)
7: Total dumbasses if they can't even tell what kind of soundhead it is. Sheesh.
8: Big whoop. The lenses are important and of course they'll fit virtually ANY projector out there. As for the bulbs, if they sold you the cheap Chink bulbs with the projectors, throw them out and get Christies.
9: An AW3 without removable brains is worth about $200 at most. It will need motors rebuilt as Mark has said and probably updated control cards. Total ripoff. I can get AW3's with removable payouts for around $500-800max.
10:We sell new Horizon systems for about the same price as used domestic systems. Who the fuck are these people!!! Even more proof that they're ripoff artists!! And after the royal ![[sex]](graemlins/sex.gif) you have already had at their hands, I sure as hell wouldn't trust them to service ANY of my equipment..I wouldn't let them unstop a toilet!!
11: Not an issue really. A projector on base like Simplex LL# or Century's equivalent and a compact lamphouse will take up less space that the Horizon junk.
12: A competent tech can do it in less than a single day..any longer than that and they don't know what they're doing.
13: Fuck their policy. They sold you unserviceable crap and you are entitled to a FULL refund, and if your state law permits it, you can sue for loss of income and other damages.
It's a good thing I don't live there, as I would be at that "dealer" and raising all kinds of hell...
Do us ALL a big favor and TELL US WHO IT IS!!
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