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Author Topic: No Tape - Take Down Question Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-19-2009 02:42 PM                        We used rubber bands for awhile but they're no good for long term storage -- they dry out and break after a while. As for artist tape not leaving any scum behind? Well there are good and bad kinds of artist tape, just like anything else. I have used 3M's "green" colored masking tape to tape down the ends of trailers for several years and it doesn't leave behind any gunk at all even after a long time. The stuff costs about $6 a roll but it works really well.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-19-2009 03:44 PM                        Rubber bands are bad for film if used for long-term storage. John Pytlak has posted about this in the past. And, yes, they do turn to goo and, eventually, dust. Paper reel bands really are the correct approach for long-term storage. White paper tape ("artist tape") is a poor substitute, though wrapping a length of junk film (preferably clear or white leader) around the "good" film and then taping that down with artist tape is a reasonable compromise. I dislike the use of tape to attach film to reel hubs for shipping purposes. It is unnecessary and someone who is tempted to run film off of a shipping reel directly through the projector without inspection (dumb, but I've seen it done) may be in for a nasty surprise. I don't use the slots in the reel hubs, either. Friction works just as well, is faster, and doesn't crease the leader.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 06-19-2009 07:44 PM                     I thought long term storage of paper and film in a metal can was a very bad thing.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-19-2009 07:52 PM                        I miss reel bands. I hated them at first but now I really miss them. I liked the soft-ish brown ones that came with non-Technicolor prints, though they seemed kind of dusty/flaky. I didn't care for the stiff bands that came with most TES prints (usually sans string, latch or both with the band taped to the film no matter if the band was complete or not), but I'd prefer those (if complete) to nothing. I remember when some trailers even came with reel bands.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-19-2009 08:29 PM                        We store trailers on spools and we have a rack of spools with trailers. No tape. Trailers that we might not run are kept in a drawer in their original boxes until either the feature is booked or a no-show decision is made. In the latter case, the trailers are returned. I have been guilty of taping the classification tags and the result on screen is not pretty. In theory, the tags should arrive on the trailers or as soon as the feature is classified - that would save me confessing my criminal behaviour.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-20-2009 01:55 AM                        quote: Joe Redifer I remember when some trailers even came with reel bands. I remember when all trailers came with reel bands. (Mainstream ones that is.) National Screen Service used to raise holy hell if you dared to send one back without its band. Yes, people...we used to send trailers back. What a concept! Of course this was when there were only a few hundred prints of a movie and a print would circulate for years, not weeks, and the idea of enclosed trailers hadn't been thought up yet.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 06-20-2009 04:10 AM                        I understand the reason many of you bemoan the death of reel bands. However, after several bad paper cuts from TES bands, I was not sorry to see them go. I also hated receiving (first run) prints where the strings on the bands where an ungodly tangled mess. I'll admit that when TES was still using reel bands, I knew much less about film handling than I do now. But as I recall, they were often much more trouble to deal with than they were worth. The string clasp was often torn free and securing with tape was not very effective. I remember opening more than one print with reel bands that was just as messy as with poorly taped heads. I think what it ultimately comes down to is taking the time to actually securely tape down the ends of the film. I get the impression that some projectionists see masking tape as a rare commodity. Too often when I get a second run print, the ends are taped with just a short (1"-2") scrap of tape. I do like when one of my assistants has to build up one of these second run prints, because it makes a good object lesson in breaking down with consideration for the next person to handle the print.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-20-2009 01:11 PM                     In Ontario the reel many years were a painted cloth band with string that was issued by the Ontario Censor Board (now the classification board) The band was the certificate for that reel as proof passed by the censor board They were very durable  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-20-2009 07:49 PM                     I should post some pictures of trailers with NSS bands. And for that matter, with 20-year-old masking tape versus 10-year-old paper tape. I spent a while today trying to stuff a tail into a 2" core on a split reel with the friction method, and totally gave up. Maybe you guys are way ahead of me (I'm sure practice helps), but I couldn't get my hands close enough to the hub to make it stick. I can do friction on a 4" core or a 5" house reel, but even then, I find the slot easier (and not damaging). In fact, on a 2" core, taping was much easier than getting it into the slot. (No, I don't normally use 2" cores. Yes, I had a good reason. No, it was not for permanent film storage. Yes, it was junk film.) One of the big wins of paper tape over masking tape is that it doesn't distintegrate. Old masking tape peels up in awkward thin slices and and crumbles. Leaving a bit of adhesive behind is just fine, of course. We only put the tape (masking or paper) on head and tail leaders, not on any actual projectable film. So a bit of adhesive? Well, OK, whatever. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-21-2009 02:02 AM                        quote: Joe Redifer I do NOT use a piece of tape to stick the hanging tail leader to the reel flange or worse... the core of film itself. I hate it when people do that. taping the head of the tail leader to the reel flange (even folded over the edge of the flange!) is common practice around here. i do artist-tape the film to itself around the hub, using a tab oriented as in jim's pic. is this what joe objects to? the tape pulls right off, and without it, the tail leader is at risk of unspooling in the can and getting dusty. yes, the rolled-up head leader is mooshed down between the flanges and ought to hold the film end down, but i don't trust it no to jostle loose. i don't put tape on non-leader film for an extended time, ever. on trailers, i put the tab opposite the way jim has it. pull the tab and the protective layer (original leader if i have it) comes off with the tape. this i then roll up and re-secure with the same tape. a substantial piece of tape is good for several cycles. i write title, version, picture/sound formats, and duration on this tape. orienting the tab as in jim's pic makes sense if you don't have an outer protective layer, but then that in itself makes no sense. (major pet peeve of mine!)  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-21-2009 10:44 AM                        Yes Carl, that is annoying. Berkeley California must be a crappy place. I am not sure that it has the right to exist any more. I don't know how the film will unravel itself in the can. When I open the cans to break a print down, the tail leaders are still as I left them. And there really isn't too much you can do about the dust issue other than hose out the insides of the can. Taping the film down won't really help. But the courtesy tab (as pictured on the trailer rewinding page Brad linked to) is what I have been doing for the last 15 years and it helps greatly.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-21-2009 01:48 PM                        used to be we'd get the occasional film move over from other theaters, on 6k's or whathaveyou. i don't know if maybe they have film-can bowling tournaments at these theaters but it was common for the rolled-up head leaders to have popped out from between the flanges and be loose in the can. so it's not totally outlandish, and for that reason i also write the reel # on the tape holding down the tail (which, as i said before, comes right off because i use that "courtesy tab").  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-21-2009 06:14 PM                     Damn! These discussions of tape can get almost as heated as discussion about something equally worthless--politicians. Maybe tape should be banned too.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-21-2009 06:35 PM                     Bill, the difference is most of these guys are first run theaters and are used to getting brand new prints and expect for their presentations to stay that way (or they at least strive to). Your situation is different since you are sub run and you are usually screwed with whatever quality random print you get. You should be happy to see these guys are at least TRYING to take care of the prints before you get them.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-21-2009 07:45 PM                        Carl, I'm sure you also leave an ID frame on the head AND tail so that would be super redundant to also write it down. But I am happy that you use the courtesy tab. More people need to. More people also need to understand which side the tab goes on as well.  |  IP: Logged

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