Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Optical Sound Troubleshooting Help (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Optical Sound Troubleshooting Help
Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-22-2009 12:34 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If a sound drum is not spinning correctly definately the Digital will not playback most probably at all. Martin clearly said that Digital is fine so most probably he was using a Penthouse reader. As far as the garbled sound I saw this effect 2 times and both times was the sounddrum not spinning correctly.
Demetris

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-22-2009 03:18 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't you hate it when flywheels holddown screws - both bolt and allen set love to come loose...?

 |  IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2009 08:52 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FWI at this point. Basement red reader for both optical and digital. The digital continued to read properly, at least in the short term trailer testing. The problem with using trailers for tests, they all have different failure rates.

Contributing to the problem was a crappy track on The Breakfast Club. After getting rid of the gross problems caused by the flywheel, there was still high sibilance and distortion, just not as much. Sounded like an unfocused exciter lamp on both machines. Beverly Hills Cop started last night and it was crystal clear, with no adjustments made.

Nonetheless, all suggestions were helpful. Thanks

 |  IP: Logged

Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-22-2009 11:27 AM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin,

What kind of printing was used for the analog track on The Breakfast Club? If it was high magenta it might have given distortion from the red reader. Also it might have been CCIR equalized and that is brighter than SMPTE.

KEN

 |  IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2009 11:55 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, the print's gone, so I can't check. Looked like a plain black Dolby track the bit I looked at (I wasn't the one inspecting the print).

Judging from the soft, mushy look of the picture, and the amount of negative dirt, I lean towards just a sloppy printing job.

 |  IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-22-2009 04:59 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin McCaffery
The Breakfast Club. After getting rid of the gross problems caused by the flywheel, there was still high sibilance and distortion, just not as much. Sounded like an unfocused exciter lamp on both machines. Beverly Hills Cop started last night and it was crystal clear, with no adjustments made
Hey Martin,

What model Time Machine are you using now? [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2009 09:53 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A Simplex XL [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-22-2009 10:58 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Demetris Thoupis
If a sound drum is not spinning correctly definately the Digital will not playback most probably at all. Martin clearly said that Digital is fine so most probably he was using a Penthouse reader.
Sigh. It turns out it IS a Basement reader and it was playing digital OK, but most likely with higher error rates. Martin admitted he wasn't sure if the error rates were higher or not.

A key to good troubleshooting is to look at ALL possible cause/effect, even if it isn't at first glance directly related to the problem at hand.

If you want to become a better projectionist/technician, you really need to listen to what other people have to say and be willing to admit it when you're wrong.

In all my years I am STILL learning new things and when I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it, whether here on the forum or to a client. I get a LOT of referrals and good customer feedback because I keep open-minded.

Example of unusual cause/effect: Customer had a CP-200 that would randomly switch to Format preset "D" (set for non/sync in that case) with no thumps or other drop-outs in the sound. After disconnecting the automation connection (rules out automation issue), pulling and re-seating ALL of the cards (rules out bad connection at the cards), pulling, inspecting and re-seating the power supply DC bundle (rules out bad Molex connections/loose pins) the problem persisted. What I eventually found, was that in the rat's nest of power cords (ALL the plug ends were cut off and tied in by a terminal strip) that the neutral on the CP-200 power supply cord's screw was loose. Tightened up the screw and no more problems. The loose connection would interrupt the power just long enough to fool the logic circuits into thinking the processor was powering up, but not long enough to make a thump in the sound. I found the bad connection when I kicked the rack in frustration. [Big Grin]

I can look back and laugh at that service call now, though it wasn't so funny then. But it's unusual stuff like that that keeps me on my toes and keeps the job interesting.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2009 11:09 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm still thinking oil in the analog sound optics... I've seen this happen on both C.E. and Kelmar basements. Sounds very murkey... no high end and lots-o-distortion. Note that on both companies basement readers the analog lens points slightly up to better accept any oil drips... of which there are usually more then plenty available from X-Ls. If digital reads fine and analog sounds like hell just run a pink noise loop and use the spectrum analyzer feature on the processor and you'll see it right away...

Mark

 |  IP: Logged

Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-23-2009 12:34 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
A key to good troubleshooting is to look at ALL possible cause/effect, even if it isn't at first glance directly related to the problem at hand.

If you want to become a better projectionist/technician, you really need to listen to what other people have to say and be willing to admit it when you're wrong.

Hmm so when there is no sound in the auditorium I need to take the ladder and check first if a speaker cable is out, then go back to the amplifiers to see if the cable is out, then see if the signal cable from the amps to the processor is damaged and THEN check if they are off!! Hmm does not sound like a good advice to me. Sorry but his point clearly mentioned analogue sound. Someone saying that analogue has a problem means that the analogue has a problem! Why start checking anything else besides obvious reasons. In any case it WAS the sound drum as I suggested in my very first post so sorry sir but I was not wrong regardless of the fact that he had a basement reader for digital.

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-23-2009 04:26 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Big simple question for Martin: Now that you don't have that one questionable print in that house, how is the sound in optical in that house now?

Cleaned up or still iffy?

-Monte

 |  IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-2009 08:39 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Optical cleaned up when we switched from Breakfast Club to Beverly Hills Cop.

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-23-2009 01:05 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I LIKE that kind of fix!! Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-2009 03:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think two people need to take a valium
they are many methods of troubleshooting and often the equipment type or common method of installation in a given region needs to be taken into account

 |  IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-23-2009 04:01 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin McCaffery
Optical cleaned up when we switched from Breakfast Club to Beverly Hills Cop.
Eddie cleaned up Molly? [Eek!] [Razz]

 -

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.