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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Century JJ vs. Simplex XL for reel to reel (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Century JJ vs. Simplex XL for reel to reel Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-17-2009 03:16 PM                     70mm is an inherently steady format...most any 70mm projector will look exceptional compared to 35mm. As for the Mag Penthouse...do you fire your changeover? If so, I'll wager you get hum in the sound when the coil is active. You are also going to get more flutter in the sound due to the mis-sprung tensioners. As for the gate, the lateral guide roller is doing very little. Look at your mag tracks, if your intermittent shoe is not set with about 2-thicknesses of clearance, you will be rubbing oxide off on tracks 2 and 5. That said, yes, you can get decent results from the Simplex 35/70...the only area they really SHOULD have fixed the 65/70mm thing is the gate (wider runners and shoes)...the rest isn't as big a deal. The penthouse needs a simple spring fix to get them to center correctly and there is no excuse for the omission of a mu-metal shield (full head and tongue). Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-17-2009 10:22 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag where did you get your $35K price on the intermittent Actually Larry Shaw posted a price for the electronic intermittent that was in that price range several years ago. No matter what it's actual price is today it's still more then likely rediclous expensive just because of its manufacturing origin. I never said tey were not reliable but so is the DP-70, DP-75, and Vic 8 for that matter. As for increased wow and flutter in the X-L penthouse it was defintely audible from the X-Ls that were installed at McClurg Court Theater in Chicago. They ran them reel to reel with automated change over. You always knew when the end of reel was near because of the audible increase in wow. Almost as though the davis rollers were asked to operate out of the usable range. If the feed clutch is this sensitive then the dragger design is inadaquate for this gauge film. While the Simplex can put out a good image I don't believe the over hanging film edge in the gate is good for the film itself. You won't get several thousand runs out of a 70mm print running them in an X-L but you will in a DP-70 or 75. The X-L's curved runner being narrower also does not place even wear on the mag tracks. Mark  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 12-18-2009 07:12 AM                     This begs the question why XL 35/70s were installed at Radio City? Why not DP70s or JJs?  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-18-2009 08:29 AM                        Because they were free, as was the ORC lamps and rectifiers. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-18-2009 09:01 AM                     Not to harp too much...but, please show any posting by Larry or anyone else with an actual price that comes anywhere NEAR $35K. Or even near $20K or near....It just isn't so and never was. The FP75 intermittent has traditionally been just under to just over double an American 35/70 intermittent...certainly not cheap but not $35K either or anywhere close. If comparing to another Euro intermittent, the price gets even closer since one of the things that affects the price, right now, is the weak dollar (averaging near $1.50 to the Euro for the last quarter of 09 but seemingly making ground in December with all of the Xmas business). Remember too, the Kinoton intermittent is many times steadier and now with the current FPS system, it is also nearly 20% more light efficient too...which translates into continual operation cost savings. Steve  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 12-18-2009 01:59 PM                     Louis: I suspected that might be the reason.  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 12-18-2009 02:54 PM                     Steve. I have never had the pleasure of playing with or seen on-screen results of an electronic intermittant but I have heard nothing but praise for them. Can you recommend any publications, videos or photos that I could study to gain an insight into these beasties? Cheers Ian  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-18-2009 05:24 PM                     Pictures of them have shown up from time-to-time in the trades. You might try contacting Kinoton for any other info too. There will be pictures of them in an upcoming photo tour I'm doing for Film-Tech (see my "teasers" in the Film Yak section under random pictures...which deliberately have not show much detail...they are teasers after all...the last one shows just a glimpse of the FP38ESs though. Nothing to gain info about the technicalities of the electronic intermittents.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-18-2009 11:26 PM                     Steve, I'm not faulting the Kinoton in any way. Its a really good projector without doubt, I do howver remember Larry kindly posting the price because I had asked how much it cost. The only down side to electronic projectors is that every one of them that has been out is now obsolete... The list isn't all that long but they are all gone! To me an electronic film projector is a similar risk as one takes installing D-Cinema. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-19-2009 07:17 AM                     Mark, I'm not saying you are faulting them...I just call into question the outlandish statement that somehow the intermittent is $35K or anywhere near that or ever have been. As for obsolete...everything electronic faces that and I agree that an electronic intermittent machine will not have the life of a mechanical one...a qualified machine shop can always make a mechanical machine. Then again, electronics tend to get better/smaller with time, as technology allows. That applies to the electronic intermittents too. In fact, Kinoton, just in 2007, brought out an improved intermittent that yields about 20% more light (faster) while improving stability about 10-fold. It doesn't make the older design obsolete either...same bolt-up motor, same sprocket. The FPS controller also fits where the MDE controller went. Note too, the device likely to wear, the motor, is repairable like any other motor. A problem DCinema has that an electronic projector doesn't is that film's technology is very mature. The Premiere line of projectors from Kinoton already eclipse all others in image steadiness...it us unlikely any new designs will improve upon that in film's current situation. DCinema is an emerging technology where one faces obsolescence continually. We haven't seen all DCinema has to offer yet and hopefully we won't for some time. As such, anything you buy today, will seem like an antique in 10-years. If the industry switches to 4K production in say 5-years, all of the 2K projectors will seem like "home theatre" quality. I do think that as we go above 4K, the improve image quality be less of a concern except for the larger theatres, where likely 16K or so will suffice in terms of perceived improvement. Steve  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 12-19-2009 11:03 AM                     These projectors have been here running 70MM since the 70's without any issues. I doubt anyone has ever walked out demanding their money back because we were using Simplex projectors. I have also run and seen 70MM run on these machines at many other places with no problems whatsoever.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2009 09:55 PM                     Steve, I pretty much agree with you on the points. Richard... Many parts are NLA for the Simplex 35/70 and they are not all that common. The guy asked for opinions and I gave him the facts. Sure Simplex's are capable of good images but they're just not all that easy on 70mm film, keeping them running may proove difficult since Strong is now in the habit of discontinuing infrequently ordered parts once stocks are depleted. It is much much easier to get parts for DP-70s or Century JJs.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-19-2009 11:58 PM                     ...another dinosaur controlled by STRONG is in the works then...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-20-2009 09:25 AM                     As for DP70s...the truth is...you just don't NEED many parts for it. It has very few weak areas. Most places only ever need oil and tension bands. Now if you let a band pop off its hook, more than likely, you'll grind down the teeth of the intermittent sprocket. Opening the gate before it has stopped is another. Oddly enough, the oil strainer is NLA...as such, one should check it regularly to insure that particles are not clogging/destroying it. On the Simplex 35/70...Since it shares almost all parts with the XL...I can think of very few unique 35/70 parts that one would need to get. What Simplex 35/70 parts are no longer available? Furthermore, the Century JJ would have the same issues (on the unique JJ parts). Both machines have unique pad roller assemblies. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-20-2009 10:41 AM                     Mainly gate/trap parts, penthouse parts, and some pad roller parts. There are some minor parts differences between the 35 and 35/70 machines. Ditto for the JJ and Pro(?) 35. Monte is correct! Over the last few years we needed a 70mm JJ trap part... I don't recall which part off the top of my head but Strong no longer had them so we took one off another machine, same thing for Ballantyne. Many locations keep a spare "parts machine" around. Some DP-70 locations also keep a soares machine around just because the whole machine is cheaper to aquire then some of the gears.  |  IP: Logged

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