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Author Topic: what projector is this Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-29-2009 01:27 PM                     Steve, those machines look very much like the ones at the Clocktower. The main differences seem to be the larger lamphouses, the reverse scan readers and, as you say, the controls in a sensible position. Is the inching knob on the bottom sprocket? On ours they were on the top. Actually, the whole box is quite similar in shape, and the door is in the same place. The sound rack used to be where the roll of paper towel is, but was moved further right to make room for the digital, and beyond that is the projectionist's desk. Along the back wall are two rewind benches, the hand one being mounted on a cupboard for spares, the lens cabinet and the 6k spools; the 2k ones go underneath the powered rewind bench. In the corner behind the desk is the fire escape, a hole in the floor with a ladder going down. There are railings around it, and now a gate, but I've almost had an accident with it more than once. The box was fitted into a difficult existing space; there's very little space to squeeze between the benches and lens cabinet on one side, and the lamphouses and rectifiers on the other. The controls are really odd, there are panels on the wall for most things, but no motor start and stop, so you have to use the silly ones on the front of the column. The problem is that you cannot reach them while looking through the viewing ports, so you have to look through the projection ports to start the motors; it is then possible to move up to the viewing ports and use the panels on the wall to do the changeover if you want to. You also have to hold out the knob on the red roller for a few seconds when starting, or the film tends to jump out of it, so the ACOP trips when you do the changeover. It's not too bad once you get used to it. They don't use the machines much now, most features are on digital, and the last time I saw a film there a few weeks ago, so were the adverts. There were no trailers on that show, but I suspect they're digital as well now.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2009 04:33 PM                     This was an installation photo...you may have noticed another port near the paper towel roll...that is where the video projector now lives. There is a desk to the right of where the picture was taken...I seem to recall the lighting board is there. As for lamphouses...I use the larger lamphouse for 2-7K. I only use the smaller one for 1-1.6K. The inching knob is on the lower sprocket on this one, yes. However, they added idler gears to ensure a good wrap on it. On earlier ones, you HAVE to use the upper sprocket. The chain only its about 4 teeth on the lower sprocket on its way to the take up gear and if you have "accelerated frictions" then it is more like 2 teeth! The upper sprocket always gets 180-degree wrap of the chain. Much more robust. As for the controls...they are simple enough for any installer to put up...just passive switches. I use a toggle for the motor and a push button for the changeover. I started doing that once I saw someone blow a changeover because they hit the wrong button on the control panel...with this simple device you can do it all by feel and just what you need is there. I have one customer that wants toggle switches on both the motor and changeover but other than that, this has worked most everywhere with great success. In fact, when the AFI/Silver photos are posted (I hear it may be as soon as this Friday 1/1/10) you will see the same theme but on a Crestron panel...hard buttons for Start, Stop and Changeover and again, the operator need never take their eyes off the screen for a changeover. Kinoton makes it so easy to add these switches too with their interface boards. Steve  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-29-2009 05:09 PM                        No footpedals? Seriously, though, that's a great-looking installation. The problem with the Kinoton control panel thing is that every button looks and feels exactly like every other button, and there are usually some buttons that do nothing. If the motor start and c/o buttons were physically separate and different sizes and/or shapes, the concept would work fine.  |  IP: Logged Jeremy M Smith Film Handler Posts: 48 From: Taupo New Zealand Registered: Aug 2008 posted 12-30-2009 12:55 AM                     is the threading any different between models I have to give a training shift on one of these next week and I have never threaded one myself.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-30-2009 06:27 AM                     Nope, the threading is essentially the same for the FP10, FP20 or FP30 or FP40 and FP50.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-30-2009 06:55 AM                     Steve, What's the 40; I've never heard of that? Are you talking about the new FP-10A portable(ish) machine, or was there an old FP-10? The 20 and 30 are the column machines, the 25 is the all-in-one thing with the large spools underneath, rather like the old Fedi machine. Might suit the lady with the very small cinema and one machine. The 50 is the console type setup; never seen one, consoles are not that common here, and were rare until quite recent times. The FP-3 was the old Philips portable with the spools on the back wasn't it, and I think the FP-5 was an older, more conventional, Philips machine before the 20 came out. Were there any others?  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-30-2009 08:22 AM                     FP40 Although in Russian it still gives you a good idea what it looked like. Somewhere in the office I have a brochure of even a portable Kinoton the 25P or 28P if I remember correctly which was discontinued. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-30-2009 08:55 AM                     Cпасибо товарищ (Thank you comrade). I think I've spelled that right; somebody tell me if I haven't. It looks almost the same as the 50, and my Russian isn't good enough to be able to read the text. I don't think it's on the English site. The long-closed MOMI in London used a couple of portable Kinotons, with incandescent lamps, feeding off an endless loop platter, projecting on small screens in the documentary and French cinema sections. I think these were the first Kinotons I ever saw.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 12-30-2009 08:57 AM                     quote: Stephen Furley The FP-3 was the old Philips portable with the spools on the back wasn't it Correct, they are great little machines.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-30-2009 09:09 AM                     The Projected Picture Trust had one in their collection at Bletchley Park. 35mm portables have always been a bit of a problem. First there was the nitrate issue; by the time that was solved 16mm was well established for many portable applications, and unless you were only running shorts you needed to carry two projectors around. Some of the later portables in the '70s could run 6k spools. Platters don't really lend themselves to portable working, and towers are more transportable than portable.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 12-30-2009 09:35 AM                     My FP-3 has what appears to be some original nitrate running measures. There is a loop of burnable thread above the gate holding wires linked to a spring loaded guillotine over the hole where film enters/exits. I have a 6K magazine for my unit, so I could never really tell its age. sorry for being OT  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-30-2009 10:00 AM                     How do you use 6k with a FP-3? The original was a sort of reversed 'B' shape thing on the back containing both spools wasn't it? Does the 6k one replace this, or sit behind it, or what? Is it attached to the projector or free-standing? Made by Philips, or third-party? Do you have a picture? Even with such precautions on the projector a fireproof projection room would still be required in most places. I've even seen pictures of a sort of metal shed, which could be erected inside a hall for this purpose. In the event of a fire which did spread beyond the projector I'm not sure if the projectionist is supposed to burn, or open the door of the shed thing, and let the fire get to the audience; either ways it doesn't seem like a good idea. Until quite recent times organisations which hired out halls for events sometimes had a condition which expressly prohibited the use of 35mm film; presumably in case somebody brought in an old nitrate print. I'm also aware of somebody who once, many years ago now, knowingly ran a nitrate print in a hall, with the projector at the back of the audience. I was in the audience, and didn't realise at the time. I would certainly have said something if I had done. Even more OT, let's get back to talking about Kinotons.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-30-2009 10:04 AM                     The FP40 came before the FP50 and it was a very big boy. Rack space on both sides of the console! But yes, essentially the same as the FP50...particularly in the projector. Steve  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-30-2009 10:23 AM                     Truly portables were the Cinemeccanica Portacine, the Pion Pion, Prevost makes one the PX86, Microcine and when I get back in the office I try to scan and post the pic of the Kinoton baby portable brochure I have. I know Fumeo made a Portacine replica and another and also some Russian one. Westar did and also a chinese company did but I would stick with Portacine or Prevost or Microcine. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-30-2009 11:15 AM                     There was the Micro-Kino, I wonder if that's the same thing as the Micro-cine, just different names in different places. Then there was the one with the 'T' shaped spool arm on top; somebody posted here who was having a problem with one a year or so ago. Or was that one the Micro-kino? There were two different ones around in the '70s and I can't remember which was which. The other one had the spools on top, and at the front, like an old Ampro 16mm. I used a Russian one once, probably '60s, but I don't know what it was called. There's the old Simplex portable, built into a square black metal box, with the take-up spoolbox inside and the feed one on top. I only ever saw one running once; the light output wasn't up to much. In between, date wise, there was the De Vry portable. Wasn't there a Cinemeccanica/Fumeo one, made by one and branded by the other I think. I'd forgotten the GBN portable, wartime, could also be used with an arc lamp on the back. They were the main machines seen in the film 'This Film is Dangerous'. I doubt that I've ever seen more than about ten 35mm portables. In my day 35mm was used in cinemas, which had permanent projectors. Almost any other type of venue in which film was shown was 16mm.  |  IP: Logged

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