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Author
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Topic: 6 Track Magnetic vs 6 Track Digital
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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 01-03-2011 12:11 AM
quote: Tom Petrov
I am not 100%, but Warner Bros was the first studio to support all three sound formats.
quote: Bobby Henderson
I think Fox was actually the first to do it with Die Hard With A Vengeance. Warner Bros. had released a few movies with Dolby Digital and DTS in 1994, but shifted to supporting Dolby Digital and SDDS until 1996 when Twister was released. Then they went quad format.
Over the years I've kept a journal and a lot of notes, especially during the 1990s when digital sound was introduced. Digging into that data, I'd like to present the following:
I think Bobby is correct about Fox and Die Hard With A Vengeance being the first film to be released with all three digital audio formats. I'm not so certain that it was released with a single inventory of quad-format prints, though; it may have been multiple inventory. What was the first quad-format, single-inventory release? Perhaps Twister as mentioned. But...there were a handful of other releases with all three digital formats in between the May '95 release of Die Hard and the May '96 release of Twister, including, if my data is correct, Fox's Strange Days and New Line's Mortal Kombat.
Continuing on the subject, I thought it might be interesting to identify the first film each of the major studios offered with a digital soundtrack followed by the first quad release to illustrate how much time elapsed between each. The purpose of this, of course, would be to point out how long each studio stuck to their idiosyncratic ways and/or political preferences in regard to supporting one (or two) formats before conceding that releasing in quad format was practical and beneficial for everyone involved.
The first entry is the studio's first release with any digital sound. The second entry is same studio's first quad release. The data concerns only the United States and Canada. Test releases have not been included, nor have any Cinema Digital Sound releases from 1990-91 been included.
BUENA VISTA
July 1992 (Dolby Digital) - Honey, I Blew Up The Kid
June 1997 - Con Air
COLUMBIA
November 1992 (Dolby Digital) - Bram Stoker's Dracula
July 1997 - Air Force One
DREAMWORKS
September 1997 (Quad format from the get-go) - The Peacemaker
MGM/UA
May 1994 (DTS) - That's Entertainment III
December 1995 - Cutthroat Island
NEW LINE
August 1993 (Dolby Digital) - Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday
August 1995 - Mortal Kombat
PARAMOUNT
November 1993 (DTS) - Flesh & Bone
May 1996 - Mission: Impossible
TRI-STAR
October 1993 (SDDS) - Rudy
May 1998 - Godzilla
TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX
December 1992 (Dolby Digital) - Toys
May 1995 - Die Hard With A Vengeance
UNIVERSAL
January 1993 (Dolby Digital) - Matinee
February 1998 - Blues Brothers 2000
WARNER BROS.
June 1992 (Dolby Digital) - Batman Returns
May 1996 - Twister
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-03-2011 10:07 AM
Edward, the SE versions of Star Wars did not help DTS gain a foothold in commercial movie theaters. DTS already had a GIGANTIC foothold in the market. The SE versions of Star Wars were released four years after DTS was introduced.
DTS was first used commercially in 1993. At its debut it rolled out onto nearly 900 screens. By 1997 DTS was installed in thousands of theaters around the country. At the time DTS was the overwhelming market leader. The format didn't need any helping hand from Star Wars. DTS was already securely established in movie theaters. SDDS was rolling out onto lots of screens and was in 2nd place on screen count in the US at that time, thanks to volume deals made with AMC, United Artists theaters and Cinemark. Dolby brought out the CP500 and slowly began closing the gap. In 1997 the main contest between DTS and Dolby was in home theater with Laserdisc and then with DVD.
Jurassic Park is the movie that gave DTS its foothold in the market. Star Wars: SE did not do that at all; it was a neutral, quad format release that gave no favoritism to any format -other than giving THX theaters priority on bookings.
BTW, I disagree about there being any "mad rush" to get theaters THX certified in 1997. If anything, THX was already suffering a serious decline. Mid 1995 marked the beginning of the stadium seated theater building boom. The overwhelming majority of new theaters built since then have not been THX certified. Star Wars: SE made virtually no difference with that situation. Worse still, many traditional seated theaters were closed in the mid to late 1990s due to competition from the new stadium seated "megaplex" builds. Some great theaters, such as the GCC Northpark 1-2 in Dallas, one of the original 1983 THX debut sites, fell as causalities to the stadium seated theater building boom. IMHO, when theaters like the Northpark 1-2 were closed THX lost most of its relevancy as well.
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 01-03-2011 10:06 PM
Only problem is, even with the best matrix, and I think the Panastereo comes closest to mimicking discrete channels, if the sound designer actually demands that unique sounds emanate from extreme locations within the soundfield, what happens is the apparent stereo separation collapses and the unique sounds don't stay in the corners of the room.
Dolby themselves admit this and even demonstrated the effect when they unveiled Dolby SRD at a NY SMPTE Meeting when SRD was ready to launch.
The Dolby moderator first played four individual sounds -- piano, violin, male dialog and female dialog. They were played individually in only the left, center, right and surround channels. The matrix did indeed keep them fairly well located in their desired positions as he played each one, one at a time in their respective locations. But then for the second part of the demo, he began with one sound in only the left channel, then added each "voice" until all four were playing simultaneously. The effect was that as each voice was added, it became more and more difficult to localize each sound. When all four were playing, their locations became indistinct, almost like they were now all coming from somewhere near the center of the theatre. The moderator admitted this was a serious limitation of any matrix and the sound designer had to be aware of it and try to avoid such sound configurations, at least not for any extended time.
Next he played the same demo with the same voices (plus adding a fifth -- I think it was a flute) via SRD and of course they stayed rock steady, locked into the four corners of the soundstage. And he rightly lauded the fact that Dolby Digital now allowed the sound designer the freedom to place sounds in any location he pleased without fear of compromising localization.
We were all duely impressed with digital. But of course I had to quip that, except for the split surrounds, the sound designer had that same freedom with 4 channel mag as well -- that even got a smattering of applause. I followed up asking if he thought given what digital now allowed, would they then go back to localized dialog to follow the actors, and he said it all depended on the sound designer; they could if they wanted to. Someone in the audience added, "Depends if there are any left who still know how to do it!"
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-03-2011 10:52 PM
quote: Frank Angel
Next he played the same demo with the same voices (plus adding a fifth -- I think it was a flute) via SRD and of course they stayed rock steady, locked into the four corners of the soundstage. And he rightly lauded the fact that Dolby Digital now allowed the sound designer the freedom to place sounds in any location he pleased without fear of compromising localization.
Nice to know that it's possible but, still, the funny thing is that I've never even once seen a movie where that was even remotely necessary.
Studios have, to my ear, expressed a far greater interest in making the most (too much?) out of the extra headroom that digital affords. (Case in point: TASA)
The better point, though, is that what I said (much) earlier in this thread applies here also - Dolby's matrix solution provided a much-improved sonic experience for neighborhood theatres. Without it, most of us would've heard Star Wars -- and so many other great-sounding movies -- in mono.
There was NEVER a chance that every theatre would have 70mm. Never!
By ignoring the **intended** application of the technology, you are not comparing apples to apples.
Part of the problem with panning dialogue is that a movie will live out most of its years on video - i don't know about you but MY left/right speakers are not behind my screen. I don't want voices of on-screen characters emanating from an off-screen point.
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