Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The digital revolution (Page 6)

 
This topic comprises 10 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 
 
Author Topic: The digital revolution
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-24-2011 02:38 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually they run those through a machine that looks for digital soundtrack dropouts and such. The problem is when I asked what defined a defective reel in terms (we were talking about sound QC at this point), the answer was "3 or more dropouts".

Me - "So how many frames can a dropout be?"

Lab - "There isn't a defined limit."

Me - "If there was one dropout for 10 minutes, how would the machine read that?"

Lab - "1 dropout."

Me - "So that would be a passing grade?"

Lab - "Yes."

Useless!

They also QC the image in a room on these little high speed projectors running an image about 2 feet big on a wall. Even though we could see noticeable bounce in the image when we looked at it closely, it looked fine at that small size. A few of us started hammering on the guy asking what he thought it would look like on 40, 50 or larger screens and he didn't get how it would magnify the bounce and be unacceptable.

Whatever. Things have only gotten worse since then. [Frown]

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-24-2011 04:04 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
Also just as an FYI, sitting in the booth is not a proper check of "quality". The customers don't sit in the booth, they sit in the auditorium. It is impossible to truly verify the "quality" of a presentation from the booth. You must be inside the auditorium where the customers will be viewing the film. For example, you could have a blown speaker, a rattling AC grill in the ceiling, a shiny spot behind the screen viewable only from the auditorium, etc.
Some movie studios will unlock a DCP days in advance so the crew will have enough advance time to ingest the movie, add all the trailers and crap and then do a QC check of it. Other movie studios wait up until the last day or maybe even a few hours before showtime to unlock the virtual print.

With digital projection, I think the temptation is definitely there for many theaters to run the movie without doing any prior QC checks. With digital you don't have to worry about a misplaced splice and suddenly having a frame line draped across the middle of the screen.

But other things can, and do, go wrong with digital. Maybe the RealD system decides to do something funny and make the left half of the screen bright green. And nothing has changed with problems that can and do occur with the sound system. But if the crew isn't in the auditorium checking the situation they're not going to hear about the problem until some customer finally goes to the trouble of mentioning it, which could be a long time after the problem has been a problem.

quote: Joe Redifer
Also, even if one could make a decent living doing DCinema installs, what happens once everything is converted over and there are no more installs to do?
Doing continued maintenance on the sound system might be an idea.

Considering how digital projection can free up theater staff members and technical people it would seem like a lot of spare time would be available to give theater sound systems more attention. Most theater sound systems need that attention badly. Sadly, cutting staff and reducing payroll is the more attractive option.

quote: Brad Miller
They also QC the image in a room on these little high speed projectors running an image about 2 feet big on a wall. Even though we could see noticeable bounce in the image when we looked at it closely, it looked fine at that small size. A few of us started hammering on the guy asking what he thought it would look like on 40, 50 or larger screens and he didn't get how it would magnify the bounce and be unacceptable.
This same issue can be applied to why I believe 35mm projection is stupid on really big screens. Not only is the image too damned dim since the projector can't throw enough light onto such a huge target. Any bounce, sideweave or breathing in the image will be amplified on a much larger screen. 5-perf 70mm solves a bunch of those problems.

Digital projection solves some of those problems too, but 2K simply doesn't have the native resolution worthy of being blown up on a 80' wide screen.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-24-2011 04:35 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
quote: Joe Redifer
Also, even if one could make a decent living doing DCinema installs, what happens once everything is converted over and there are no more installs to do?
Doing continued maintenance on the sound system might be an idea.

Considering how digital projection can free up theater staff members and technical people it would seem like a lot of spare time would be available to give theater sound systems more attention. Most theater sound systems need that attention badly.

I agree, but unless there is some sort of equipment failure, there isn't much to maintain after the initial re-tuning other than a re-check every 6 months or year or so. In fact, I'd bet that most theater operators wouldn't want to pay someone to come out and make sure everything is squared away if they don't hear anything wrong or aren't getting any complaints.

 |  IP: Logged

Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 02-24-2011 07:09 PM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a very bleak looking future for many of us. [Frown]
Even if one could force a way in to the Tech end of it?
Anyway most chains around here have contracts with a big tech company which is Canada wide and unless I secured employment with them it will not happen I think?
Of course not crazy about constant travel either!
D cinema is just not that interesting ,it may be perfect for some but for me [dlp] and 3d are the end!

Unless everything crashes,companies go near broke and hold on to film a while longer
[thumbsup]

 |  IP: Logged

Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-26-2011 02:40 PM      Profile for Aaron Mehocic   Email Aaron Mehocic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw this coming when Carmike did their Houdini three or four years ago. Since then I am back in school learning a new trade in which my 20+ years as a projectionist was extremely helpful in understanding the subtle nuances of my new choice. Unfortunately, I am due to graduate with an unemployment rate in my area still over 8%. Even if I do find a new job, the starting pay will still be less than what I am making in the booth, so I have already prepared myself to take some steps back economically. I will continue teaching during the day . . . but I am also preparing to take a hit in that profession as well given what is happening with unions.

Like many of you, I am also sad to see film go. For many of you who do not have an alternative career choice I understand your fear and trepidation. Steve Guttag is right, however, in that there really is not that much difference between digital and 35mm set-ups. As he acknowledges, one just has to think differently. For those of you like Joe who dont want to stay because you dont want to travel I hear you. Maybe some retraining might be in order for those people as well. Use your years of experience to try new fields like electronics, drafting, or even engineering. Keep your attitude positive and things will work out in the end

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-26-2011 03:52 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron -- or anyone who is going back to school...

If you have federal Direct Loans (i.e. "Staffords" and certain others) be sure that you sign up for Income Based Repayment (IBR) -- your Adjusted Gross Income and number of dependents will be taken into account, so that your repayments don't cripple you.

I was told not to sign up for IBR "too early" because it won't kick in if you are still in your grace period.

 |  IP: Logged

Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-26-2011 04:37 PM      Profile for Aaron Mehocic   Email Aaron Mehocic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the heads-up.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-27-2011 06:42 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You guys really believe that once a digital system is installed on a given screen that there will be no further tech work to do on that screen? Really?

For the most part, these digital projectors are computer-based, not mechanical. Unlike mechanical machines, from what I've seen so far with computer-based cinema there will be a near endless cycle of software/firmware updates, board updates, light engine updates, light path alignment/cleaning, server updates and changeouts, network switch and router changes, and on and on, ad nauseum, in addition to whatever sound work that will pop up.

Tech work ain't going away once installs are done. Indeed there may be fewer guys/gals doing this work, but work there will always be, and someone has to do it. Might as well be some of us. Just have to get used to the new order, like a lot more and near constant training for the techs doing this work. You'll be back in school... a lot.

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-27-2011 07:18 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, thing fail. The problem is that the theatre management will only call if customers are complaining.

No one knowledgeable is watching.

You will only get panic calls. Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-27-2011 03:20 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Louis types like fortune cookie.

Or getting charged by the letter.

Manny.

[Razz]

 |  IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 02-27-2011 06:50 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
You guys really believe that once a digital system is installed on a given screen that there will be no further tech work to do on that screen? Really?
Who here claimed that no tech work will be needed? Because I don't see anyone that said this.

 |  IP: Logged

Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 02-28-2011 12:35 AM      Profile for Jim Henk   Email Jim Henk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Manny Knowles
Louis types like fortune cookie.

Or getting charged by the letter.

Manny.

Manny disapproves
I think Louis writes Haiku.
It's five - seven - five.

 |  IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 02-28-2011 01:45 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

 |  IP: Logged

Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 02-28-2011 02:10 AM      Profile for Jim Henk   Email Jim Henk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just fell off my chair laughing. [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-28-2011 12:39 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think there is MORE of a need for a tech than before.

Sure we have a shiney new digital machine, but there's no way I can fix the doggone thing if it breaks. In the film days, if things were slow (which they were for a vast swath of the 80s) we could go without a tech visit for years if necessary because I could maintain the machine myself and swap out most parts that needed swapping. Overnight shipping was our friend.

In the last 10 years we've had a tech visit about once every 8 months, and that's not going to change here. It's cheap insurance to have a tech onboard who knows our machine inside and out. Although I still think overnight shipping might be our friend now and then too!

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 10 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.