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Author Topic: Potts Enterprises to close Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 11-26-2011 12:33 AM                     ... and here's a link to a great vid on the Kinoton Endless loop. Kinoton Endless Loop Platter  |  IP: Logged Peter Howard Film Handler Posts: 44 From: Forster, NSW, Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 12-02-2011 10:12 PM                        quote: Ian Parfrey As far as reliability and ease of operation is concerned, the Eprad Dbl Mut is still my favourite long play device, bar none. Haha, agreed, my dad loves them and consequently we have 6 or 7 of them I think. Each cinema has a Potts A3 and an Eprad dbl mut installed, and aside from the odd adjustment to the limit switches when the arm starts to do a happy dance they are very very good.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-02-2011 10:31 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag Kinoton's endless loop, the ST2000 "meters" its film on/off. Steve, watching the video Ian posted, there are obviously "pins" or "hooks" that hold the film back, and then are released after so many layers are built up. That is not the same as the continuous metered laydown of film on the Christie ELF. The idea with the ELF, according to Clark, was that the film was laid down one layer at a time, with no sliding or rubbing against adjacent layers of film. However, Kinoton's equipment is generally very good, so I do not doubt that their design works well. But IMHO it would NOT be as gentle on the film based on the use of those "hooks" or whatever you want to call them. And Adam is correct, I should have said eccentric rubber mat on the deck, not implied that the deck itself was eccentric. (Actually, thinking back, the "A" model's deck itself might have been eccentric shaped..been too many years since I saw one.)  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-02-2011 11:20 PM                        Is it just me, or does hearing "pins" and "hooks" in reference to film make everyone cringe?  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 12:50 PM                     quote: Joe Redifer Is it just me, or does hearing "pins" and "hooks" in reference to film make everyone cringe? Nope, I am not keen on that idear either.  |  IP: Logged Matthew McBride Film Handler Posts: 97 From: Tupelo, MS USA Registered: Oct 2011 posted 12-03-2011 03:19 PM                     Yeah when I saw the video of the endless loop for Kinoton I was amazed and afraid for the film. I would be scared that the hooks or pins would just rip the film apart.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-03-2011 05:11 PM                     Having worked with the ELF...it most definitely slides film upon itself. Its metering of film is no different than the Kinoton in that they both have a sprocket that drives the film onto the platter at the same rate of speed it is turning. WIthout a doubt, I'd put a Kinoton ST2000E up against the Christie ELF any day of the week. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 05:38 PM                     Say whatever you want Steve, but the fact is simple: The ELF does NOT use anything other than the metering arm and the varying friction of the deck pads to form the cusps, NOT any kind of mechanical pins or hooks. The videos posted make that crystal clear. And you experience with the ELF doesn't match mine, I worked at several screens with the ELFs for quite a few years. And watching the motion closely the film does NOT slide against itself. In fact, Clark had to prove that to the Cheif projectionist before he would authorize them. He did it by sticking a tape flag to one layer and we watched it as it moved in. No lateral motion. Metering methods aside, I can agree that the Kinoton would beat the Christie any day...endless loop or standard platter.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-03-2011 06:21 PM                     The Christie has a "beater" roller like other endless loops. As I recall, the tension adjustment on the metering system had to be precisely set to get it to work reliably. When polyester hit...they did NOT do well out here...too much clinging...which is challenging for any platter but an endless loop just chokes...the ELF included. Reliability wise, out here, the Potts Endless loops did as well as the ELF in terms of reliability...if not a tad bit better. The Potts solution was pretty simple, as are most of his designs. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-03-2011 10:27 PM                     Yep, the beater roller was a part of it, and had to be used most of the time...some prints worked without it but that was a crapshoot. The tension setting of the metering arm was critical, but the biggest challenge was keeping people from messing with it. I also recall a LOT of experimentation with the tension springs.... Poly prints did indeed give it fits..between the sticking and thickness difference..aggravated even worse by the trailer pack which was for some time a mix of acetate and Poly stocks...that frequently made the ELF form one big cusp instead of three. But it still ran that way and if left alone would eventually correct itself. Never got a chance to work with the Potts version, but heard like you said it was actually pretty good.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-04-2011 05:48 AM                     MoMi in London used several of these things. I was told by Charles Beddow that they didn't like black and white film, and that the prints which they used on them had to be printed on colour stock. Does anyone know why this might be? I didn't think to ask him at the time.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-04-2011 09:00 AM                        I don't remember colour stock, but I do recall that we had to have a humidifier in all of the little booths to prevent wraps and jams, and that the prints had to be sent to Studio Film & Video (now Soho Images) to be waxed every few weeks. My first job there was go to round with a watering can, filling the humidifiers up! There again, those MOMI exhibit screenings were a very punishing environment: the prints were only about 30-60 minutes of film each and they were running continuously, nine hours a day, six days a week (the museum was closed on Mondays). So each print probably did in excess of 100 passes through a projector per week. Even though every surface in the film path and projector mechanism was cleaned scrupulously at the start of each shift, the prints still got very scratched and dirty, very quickly. That whole museum installation was way ahead of its time in some ways, and very ambitiously designed. Another innovation was that all the exhibits which used video monitors were fed from a bank of computer-controlled laserdisc drives in a series of 19" racks in the control room. Their life expectancy was very short, resulting in a basement full of dead ones.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 12-05-2011 11:59 AM                     I did see the Museum of Moving Image exhibit in London and noted the Potts looper platters chugging away. We used three units for coming attactions in cinema lobbies for six years before converting to video; they ran fine during the period.  |  IP: Logged

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