Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 2001 A.S.O. - DTS discs compatible between 35 and 70mm?

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Topic: 2001 A.S.O. - DTS discs compatible between 35 and 70mm?

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-23-2018 02:27 PM

I ran 2001 back in 1970 at a drive-in and yes, 10 reels long and the last reel was almost all credits.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-24-2018 06:31 PM

quote: Robert Harris
I’m unaware of a specific Cinerama “cut.” The OCN was re-cut to the version of the film that we now know, very early on, with many deletions, plus additions. That occurred early in April, around the 8th to 11th.

I was told, that aside from all of the various mixes based upon the original, that the film was 4-track, with the exception of the last reel, which was standard 6-track. I presume that original prints were produced from a modified, 6-track print master, but earlier films, such as El Aurens, had been recorded directly from the 4-track.

I’ve personally never seen any optically modified prints, specifically produced for highly curved screens, as had been created for early Todd-AO, although there are stranger things in heaven & earth.

I always heard the same thing - that it was 4-track except for the last reel (although you may have been the source of that info). I saw it at the Boston Cinerama in the Fall of 1968 and I can't say whether I remember hearing 3 or 5 stage channels, but when I saw it recently in 70mm at the Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, NY, I could swear I could hear discrete audio out of LC and RC before the last reel, which really surprised me. The other thing I noticed was that the mix was quite different than that of a recent TV broadcast.

Did anyone here project the 70mm and listen or monitor closely enough to know whether there was LC and RC activity before the last reel?

And while there might not have been prints rectified for a curved screen, one memory I do have is the early shot where the bone is thrown in the air and becomes the spaceship. At the Boston Cinerama, I remember the angle of the bone and the angle of the ship to be a perfect match. So perfect that I remember the audience gasping. But I've never seen it that way since and I've always wondered whether this shot was made to work on the curved Cinerama screen and not on a flat screen (whether purposely or accidentally) or whether it's just a false memory and the cut was always imperfect.

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Stephan Shelley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 854
From: castro valley, CA, usa
Registered: Nov 2014

posted 08-24-2018 08:39 PM

I can tell you that the current 6.0 mix has a lot of surrounds on all the reels. There are some station announcements on the space station that are on surrounds only and that seems like it would be an original thing. All the music has fill on the surrounds. Hal when speaking on the ship but not the pods comes in part from the surrounds. Air hissing and the breathing on the space wakes comes in part through the surrounds.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-24-2018 10:51 PM

I thought the original 2001 mix was 4 track (L-C-R-S) that was faked up to 6 track for the 70mm prints. I would think that all reels would have contained the fake LC-RC stage channels. I do have a question about this process.
1) Did they take the 4-track print master and run it through a mixer that created LC-RC at the time of sounding each print? Or:
2) Di d they take the 4-track master and make a 6 track master in which the 70mm prints were sounded?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-25-2018 11:22 AM

I've run this movie a LOT over the years, in 70mm, at various venues, with various prints.

While it is evident that they started with a 4-track mix, it most definitely had the "spread" mix applied on EVERY print I've run. Any dialog present in LC is present (at a lower level) in Left as well as Center. Likewise for RC. That said, there are scenes when LC or RC are a dominate channel. For instance, on the space-station while Dr. Floyd is in the phone booth. His dialog is very much centered on Left-Center. Even on cut-aways, his dialog stays there. I would suspect that any 4-track prints (35mm) while would likely have the same mix would have a far less convincing effect without the hard channel there. It would be very room and speaker dependent.

HAL plays out of all 6 channels, pretty uniformly. I'm wondering if the track wasn't hand tweaked for that since a basic spread mix would have LC/RC elevated due to the combination of the channels.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-30-2018 09:51 AM

quote: Martin Brooks
I remember the angle of the bone and the angle of the ship to be a perfect match. So perfect that I remember the audience gasping.

Martin, while I can't say how close the bone and the ship's position on the screen match on the Cinerama vs. flat screen -- I only saw the Cinerama presentation twice in '68, much too long to say definitively if it were a better match in Cinerama -- but no matter, ANY time I have seen it or run it, the audience most definitely reacts. Today it may no longer be a gasp exactly, (pretty much everyone under the sun knows that cut is coming) but at the very least, there is always a noticeable reaction, be it acknowledgement or appreciation, and yes, maybe for the few first timers a gasp, but it is always there.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-30-2018 11:10 PM

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-31-2018 12:36 AM

Well those frames would seem to indicate that my memory was totally incorrect.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-31-2018 07:24 AM

FWIW, I've mostly seen the movie on a Cinerama screen (Uptown in DC) and I don't recall it precisely lining up, ever. Then again, I wasn't looking for it. I think it would have made a cool shot even cooler though.

Where did you get the print Michael? That looks like a Metrocolor print yet the colors are good and the last Metrocolors where prior to 1982 so it should be faded by now.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 09-11-2018 02:08 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
Where did you get the print Michael?

From a collector friend (so that it could be included as an image in my 50th anniversary article). I don't know the vintage of the print or what, if any, digital tinkering was done.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 09-11-2018 04:03 PM

I've never remembered the flying bone and the spaceship to match-up perfectly. It was an interesting cut, but not half as mind-boggling as the rest of the stuff that's going on. [Wink]

Why would this segment be cut differently on a Cinerama cut than on any other cut?

If it actually would line-up perfectly, wouldn't it be equally impressive, no matter what the presentation format?

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 09-12-2018 03:07 AM

Mike's 70mm clip of the bone / space ship is (almost) same as used from Jerome Angels "The Making of Kubrick's 2001".

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Kubricks-2001-Jerome-Agel/dp/0451059018

The only difference I ever saw between 70mm prints of 2OO1, was a print that said "in 70mm", instead of CINERAMA at the credits.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 09-13-2018 12:04 AM

I saw it in Laser LIEMAX recently and they had the "in Cinerama" credit.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 09-13-2018 02:17 AM

I've seen it in 70mm and it also had the Cinerama credit, which made me wonder a bit, but seemingly that was Nolan's source...

I think we can, with a bit of reasonable doubt, conclude that the only difference between the 70mm and the Cinerama "cut" was the last reel and the Cinerama credit. While it technically is a different cut, I doubt that's sufficient to really consider it to be an alternate version.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 09-13-2018 06:40 AM

Did they make prints with "in 70mm" or was that always that physically spliced in?

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