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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The Joker from WB to be released in 5/70mm (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: The Joker from WB to be released in 5/70mm
Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted 08-12-2019 02:09 AM      Profile for Tyler Purcell   Author's Homepage   Email Tyler Purcell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So here is the issue with making 70mm prints.

Unlike 35mm recorders, the 70mm recorders are very slow. It takes 16 - 18 days to make the master internegative that the prints are struck off. Then you've gotta ramp up production and strike the prints. Fotokem is the only lab in the world that can make color 70mm theatrical prints from an IN.

So lead time is everything and the movie right now has a major issue, so it's being re-cut. Considering things like world premiere schedules and such, they have to lock picture by a certain time and a re-cut would mean, everyone needs to re-tweak, VFX, audio mix, color, the whole 9 yards. So they may even resort to showing a non-finished product at the premiere, which happens a lot. The film comes out in October, so lets say they finish end of August, they've got September to do all the print work? No way..... it's too tight of a schedule.

Back in the day, once they'd have a cut negative, it would be easy to make prints. With 50+ printers in LA alone running at 200ft per minute, you could make a few hundred prints in the same time it takes to laser out a single 70mm IN from a computer.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-12-2019 02:16 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why not just output to 4-perf or 8-perf 35mm and do the blowup optically? Wouldn't that be faster?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-12-2019 09:54 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Tyler, you have a valid point, but remember though as slow as the 70mm recorder is, once the first reel's internegative is struck and an answer print made and approved, the lab can start printing those reels immediately while the recorder is working on another reel. It isn't as if they have to lose 2 weeks before they even start making the prints.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-13-2019 12:27 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lyle Romer
I think the main use is that it allows them to re-frame the shot while maintaining 4k resolution. Basically they can shoot with a large "safe area" around the intended framing and then adjust it in post production.
I'm aware some productions will shoot shots loose and then crop to re-frame shots, using the extra resolution of the camera to still stay above 4K (or 2K). I'm still not a big fan at all of that approach. It's a variation of pan-and-scan.

What I don't like about it is the camera, just like the vision from your eyes, sees a natural vanishing point in the dead center of the image. Different planes of perspective will differ from that vanishing point, but there is a still a natural relationship present. That is enhanced by the effects of vignetting and differences of image sharpness at the edges as opposed to the center. When someone crops into the image, especially in some kind of offset manner the whole look of the image can end up feeling odd. It's one of the things that grated on me badly when watching 'scope movies panned and scanned on old SD TV sets. All the shots looked weirdly off center, confirmed by added home video edits either cutting from the left side of a shot to the right side or electronically panning to it. Just awful. Now we're getting back to that in an oddly different way.

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Tyler Purcell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Van Nuys, CA
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted 08-13-2019 09:00 PM      Profile for Tyler Purcell   Author's Homepage   Email Tyler Purcell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Tyler, you have a valid point, but remember though as slow as the 70mm recorder is, once the first reel's internegative is struck and an answer print made and approved, the lab can start printing those reels immediately while the recorder is working on another reel. It isn't as if they have to lose 2 weeks before they even start making the prints.
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True! But for some reason, they don't appear to be doing it that way. Maybe they did on Once Upon a time, which is why they had issues with the reel labels? I'm also not sure if they can record the DTS timecode or if they have to do that when they make the prints. My familiarity with 70mm print making is pretty weak, I need to go make a visit and talk to Andrew about it in more detail.

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Terry Monohan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 379
From: San Francisco CA USA
Registered: May 2014


 - posted 08-21-2019 10:02 AM      Profile for Terry Monohan   Email Terry Monohan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Visited the Alamo Drafthouse New Mission in SF on Tues 8/20 as they are open again after their small electrical chemical battery smoke emergency light problem a few days ago. I smelled no smoke as they aired out Theatre#1 for 2 days. The unit that caused the mess was on the left side of the stage.

Watched again for the third time and still in good 70mm film shape 'Once Hollywood' I noticed that they have pulled the attached at the top 70mm 'Joker' flat trailer and have put in 'The Tenant' in 70mm scope film trailer in It's place. Says in 70mm-35mm & IMAX at end. Looks like a better film then The Joker?

I wonder is this means the 'The Joker' 70mm film will not play in SF at the New Mission Theatre?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-03-2019 04:29 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
What I don't like about it is the camera, just like the vision from your eyes, sees a natural vanishing point in the dead center of the image. Different planes of perspective will differ from that vanishing point, but there is a still a natural relationship present.
As long as you use an "open matte" approach and you crop the same ratio from all sides, I don't see any harm done here.

Besides some stability corrections, which don't really meaningfully affect the vanishing points in the picture, I guess it's generally considered to be bad cinematography to pan-and-scan around the image.

Yes, some of those scope to 4:3 pan&scan transfers were pretty horrible, but otherwise, watching scope on a 4:3 screen always was a bit of "slit-o-vision". [Wink]

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 09-05-2019 01:03 AM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joker 7OMM engagements: https://in70mm.com/news/2019/joker/index.htm

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Stephan Shelley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 854
From: castro valley, CA, usa
Registered: Nov 2014


 - posted 09-05-2019 01:48 PM      Profile for Stephan Shelley   Email Stephan Shelley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the Willows in Plymouth Minnesota is showing it as well as the rest in the USA.

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David J Hilsgen
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 192
From: SAUK RAPIDS,MN . USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 09-05-2019 07:50 PM      Profile for David J Hilsgen   Email David J Hilsgen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Willow is booked for it I don't know why it is not on the list

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-06-2019 01:38 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What makes me skeptical is that this movie now ranks a 9.6 with 9.2K votes on IMDB, while it hasn't been released in any major market yet...

Granted, the reviews themselves look more promising than I thought. My feelings about a 70mm release remain mixed on this one. It was shot digitally, so why bother to print it to expensive 70mm film? Why not reserve this privilege for movies that did take the optical/photo-chemical route?

Yes, I know, contrast of a good 70mm presentation will be much better than that of the average xenon 4K presentation. But I guess that those venues that show 70mm as a premium engagement can also invest in a high-contrast 4K RGB laser machine?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-06-2019 07:06 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is ZERO marquee appeal to "Presented in 4K Digital." People have that in their homes and spend next to nothing doing it (hence they would think our 4K projectors are no more expensive).

Presented in 70mm is something quite a bit more rare and could give a movie credibility that 4K cannot.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-06-2019 07:42 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with you on that one, but... (would be a boring discussion without a but, wouldn't it?)

For most people I know outside of this industry, I think, the added value for "presented in 70mm" is also close to zero, unfortunately.

Maybe, let me call it, the "don't know what it is, but it must be good"-value (or value-of-positive-ignorance ?) of 70mm is higher than that of "Presented in 4K", since many people know they do have "4K" at home, but have no clue about 70mm. That might lift it up just a little bit, but most people either have never heard of 70mm or if they have, it reminds them of "old movies".

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-06-2019 10:42 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even in film's heyday...they had no clue what 70mm meant. Seriously. The associated it with bigger screen...which confused them on 1.85:1 70mm films like Playtime or blowups like ET.

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 09-06-2019 11:07 AM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When "Interstellar" played in Copenhagen in blazing 70mm in 2014, one theatre alone created 58% of all business of that title in the entire nation. It opened in 60 cinemas I seem to remember. It was the 1000-seater Imperial Bio managed by Nordisk Film.

Besides the fact it was a splendid film in many ways, people came to see it because it was IN 7OMM!! 7OMM bloody works - good old fashioned film - big time. People like something special, and 7OMM has that. And the audience want to pay for it, and they travel far and wide to see it. It is also still a good story in the press. At least here in Denmark, and a few more places I know of.

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