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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: Dvd
Peter Kerchinsky
Master Film Handler

Posts: 326
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-02-2002 02:41 PM      Profile for Peter Kerchinsky   Email Peter Kerchinsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Old Showman;
You've got to be kidding about preferring the panned and scanned versions on video! Letterboxing is the only way to go. That's one thing I enjoy about Turner Classic movies on cable. If the film was shot 1.85 or Scope, they play it that way. AMC did it for a while but now they show all scope films panned and scanned so I no longer watch them. Plus the fact they recently added commercials! Yuk!
My suggestion is buy a larger screen TV and watch your films the way they were meant to be shown.

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 09-02-2002 03:02 PM      Profile for Robert E. Allen   Email Robert E. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Pete!

Have you priced wide screen TVs lately? They don't fall within my budget. I agree that 'scope should be seen in 'scope (remember I was a projectionist when CinemaScope premiered and have seen the industry through all it's transitions) but unless someone is going to gift me with one I'll have to stick to P&S or STAND. Have a great day!

Bob
The Old Showman

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-02-2002 04:02 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just sit really really close like the guy who went to the Fenway theater.
(see Darn you AMC! Why don't you do your space motion sickness research)

------------------
Find me online
AOL: Dexter Caldwell
yahoo!: dexter_caldwell

"It is the opinion of the entire staff the Dexter is criminally insane."


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-02-2002 04:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"I guess I feel that having to wait for an FBI warning doesn't even come remotely close to tipping the scales againt DVD. Like Evan said, it's the best medium ever for home. Random access, not having to rewind the damn thing every time, better picture, clear pauses, clear frame-by-frame, and better sound are just a few reasons why DVD is the best.

Part of me wonders if some of you are against DVD's just because they're digital?"


Chad, actually you are incorrect. The BEST home video format right now is a little something called D-VHS. It's 1080i digital video in a VHS shell. And as far as tape vs. disc, I have no problem whatsoever dealing with tape shuttling. It's much less annoying than navigating those stupid menus every time I play the tape. The buttons are always the same. "PLAY" means just that...PLAY!

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-02-2002 04:16 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know it won't happen, but I'd _love_ to see some director/studio have the guts to refuse to release a popular film on any home format and insist that the only way to see the film presented properly is in a good theatre environment. Of course, I'd like to see this attitude carry over to not allowing the film to play in theatres which have a reputation for poor presentation quality.

As for DVD--it's definitely the best home format, but it's still substandard in many ways. It seems to have been designed more for low cost and convenience rather than quality. If they had used larger-diameter disks, then they could have used a higher bitrate with fewer of the objectionable lossy compression artifacts which exist on every DVD that I have seen.


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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-02-2002 04:38 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
As for DVD--it's definitely the best home format, but it's still substandard in many ways. It seems to have been designed more for low cost and convenience rather than quality. If they had used larger-diameter disks, then they could have used a higher bitrate with fewer of the objectionable lossy compression artifacts which exist on every DVD that I have seen.

It's interesting to consider what kind of video quality DVDs might be capable of if they were on 12" discs (like LaserDiscs) instead of 5 1/4". But there's NO POSSIBLE WAY a consumer-oriented mass-produced system will EVER use discs any larger than they are now. As for the artifacting, I'm a pretty harsh critic, and I have to say that with a good progressive-scan DVD player with 3:2 pulldown, noticeable artifacting is pretty rare. I HATE artifacting, but it's all but disappeared on my 53" HD-capable set since I got a better DVD player (with component video of course). Transfers & compression techniques have improved too.

quote:
The BEST home video format right now is a little something called D-VHS.

Tape-based D-VHS is a stop-gap measure meant to facilitate recording and playback of true high-definition today. It's on the market now because DVD technology isn't quite ready yet for high-definition (for whatever reason). But D-VHS is doomed to fail. Unless I suddenly strike it rich, I wouldn't spend 2 cents on any "new" tape-based home video format. Better DVDs are coming and they will make tape-based systems instantly obsolete. I can wait. Consumer Videotape: Just Say No. Besides which, the studios are very nervous about releasing mass quantities of their product in full 1080i. Though some are currently supporting D-VHS, the quantities are miniscule in terms of the overall market. I just can't see D-VHS ever being very big unless the price suddenly drops below $300 for the hardware. I'll be very surprised if we ever see mass-production of hollywood product for the consumer market in real 1080i, whether it's D-VHS or a future true HD-capable version of DVD.

"The opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author."



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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-02-2002 05:27 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert Allen said "Have you priced wide screen TVs lately?"

Well, actually you can buy them at Costco now. The Samsung Direct View CRT 16 by 9 set is a little over 1K in price. RCA also has them at about this price if ya shop around. RCA otherwise known as Thomson Electronics has the hand up in this stuff as they built the first wide screen CRT plant down in Indiana. All in all, for 1K, its not such a bad deal or unaffordable either.
Mark

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 09-02-2002 06:09 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I noticed (according to Amazon.com) that the Neverending Story DVD will be released tomorrow, Sept. 3, and that it's 1.85:1

It was released (in Region 1) September 4 of last year!!! The disc includes a 2.35:1 original and 1.33:1 pan-and-scan edition.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-02-2002 06:09 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, what I have noticed is that it is a better buy to get a 4:3 set and deal with the letterbox. The 16:9 sets don't seem any "wider" just less tall.

As to DVD artifacts...I've seem on some of the best stuff and they still have compression artifacts that I don't like. The whole, only update those pixels that change seems to have a look I don't like.

The DVD player was certianly impressive (in appearance and weight!)...check out the Panasonic DVD-H2000
http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelID=11671

Looked pretty good....for video.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 09-02-2002 06:36 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Guttag wrote:
quote:
Actually, what I have noticed is that it is a better buy to get a 4:3 set and deal with the letterbox. The 16:9 sets don't seem any "wider" just less tall.

What if the primary reason someone wishes to purchase a 16:9 set is so they *won't* have to deal with the letterbox?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-02-2002 06:54 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Image area is image area...if you don't want to deal with letterbox...buy the 4:3 set and make some nice wood panels to cover those unused portions...you save money and you won't have to look at those nasty black areas. Then for regular TV...just pop off the wood panels and you get to have yet larger images. On a 16:9 set, you just get a smaller 4:3.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-02-2002 07:17 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I never thought I would read that you were an advocate of common width masking!


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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 09-02-2002 07:28 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree the FBI warnings on many DVDs are distracting, as are some of the promo thingies companies like Fox and Universal tack onto the front of their DVDs. However, most newer DVD releases allow you to use your chapter buttons to quickly zap past such spam. You can even chapter past the long-ish animated intros on a lot of discs and get right to the "play movie" button. On some older DVDs, I have found going into the scene selection and hitting the first chapter will bypass a bunch of that nonsense as well.

At any rate, those options make DVD much more convenient and fast than VHS to get to the movie. As others have pointed out, many VHS tape releases have lots and lots of previews and other crap on the front, all of which must be fast forwarded past to get to the show. Thank God for chapter buttons on DVD.

To address the P&S versus letterbox topic, I personally feel it is far better to stomach some thick black bars on a 4:3 TV set than buy a P&S version. I don't have a huge TV either (32" RCA model).

The problem with buying a pan and scan version is it is not "future proof" for a TV you'll likely buy a few years from now. If anyone thinks black bars on the top and bottom of a picture is distracting, try watching a show with black bars on the sides. That's exactly what you'll be doing with any P&S "fullscreen" DVD shown on a widescreen TV.

I watched HBO's HDTV channel this past week at my parents' place in Colorado. That channel sidebars all non-HD 4:3 content. And the effect doesn't look all that good. Any 4:3 P&S DVD will be treated the same way, unless you want to distort the picture by stretching it or doing an even worse thing by zooming into it.

Widescreen TV models (even boasting HDTV tuners) are replacing more and more category levels of monitors. Virtually all NTSC big screen sets have been replaced in electronics stores with HD or HD-ready models. In recent visits to various Best Buy, Soundtrack and Ultimate Electronics stores in Denver, Oklahoma City and Dallas, I found smaller and smaller CRT-based monitors with prices nearing the $1000 level. It won't be but maybe another year or two before we start seeing HDTV CRT monitors dropping well below the under-$1000 price level. The FCC has mandated all new TV sets must come equipped with DTV tuners by 2006. I think it is very likely the marketplace with make that happen before then, like perhaps 2004 or 2005.

So, no P&S DVDs for me --unless the 4:3 version is the only thing offered (like "Citizen Kane" or "Full Metal Jacket").

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-02-2002 07:55 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I think that the whole 16:9 TV aspect ratio was a really bad idea, as it introduces a new aspect ratio (1.77:1) which introduces incompatability with 50 years' worth of television programming and 100 years' worth of movies. As I understand it, the reason for the 1.77 format had to do with some limitations on the ability to manufacture wide CRTs, but that seems like a really bad excuse for introducing a silly format.

What I would prefer to see (I know it won't happen, but...) is a higher-quality 1.33:1 TV format, probably 1050p or 1080p, which would quadruple the effective resolution of NTSC television, would be compatible with all of the television programming ever produced, and would provide sufficiently high resolution that letterbox broadcasts of widescreen movies would be of acceptible quality. The legitimate objection to letterbox broadcasts now is that the gain in providing the original image composition is outweighed by the loss in resolution. For some films, I would agree with this, and there are some acceptible P&S versions on certain titles. With a significant increase in TV resolution, however, this objection becomes less meaningful. Trying to convert everything--from 1.33 TV shows and films to CinemaScope movies--to fit on a 1.77 screen which does not correspond to any aspect ratio ever used before--just seems silly to me.

Besides, I don't personally think that a widescreen format is particularly appropriate for most TV programming. Does "Wheel of Fortune" or a nightly news program gain anything from a wider aspect ratio?


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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-02-2002 08:16 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To be honest here, 1.77 is so close to 1.85, I don't worry that much about AR. I for one am sticking to my 1.33 set since I bought my Toshiba Cinema Series 32 inch set less than two years ago. I won't upgrade until the HD standards and tuners have been truly standardized and widespread.

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