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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: DTS DVDs
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-16-2001 05:48 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If a movie wasn't good enough to watch in a theatre for free it probably isn't going to get any better by virtue of watching it at home. Certainly not good enough to PAY for!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-16-2001 06:21 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No no no no no! That's not not what I meant. If a movie WAS good enough to watch in the theater, a movie with a sound mix that you really enjoyed, how are you gonna watch it in digital once it goes away? Buy the print like collectors do?

DVDs usually have the same mix as the theatrical prints.


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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-16-2001 06:46 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ever see "Amazon Women on the Moon"? In the "Video Pirates" segment, the FBI warning comes up and the guy says "Oh, I'm sooooo SCARED!"
I hate how so many DVDs work like video games- the "Independence Day" disc makes you watch a cheaply-animated recreation of the white house blowing up when you hit "Play Movie", and "Meet the Parents" plays literally the very last spoken line of dialogue in the movie before it starts the movie! I'd be REAL annoyed by some of these if I hadn't even seen the movie before- the audio selection screen on "Coyote Ugly" is kind of a spoiler, and if you've seen it you know what I mean
I can't say I miss those side breaks on laserdiscs though, or the prices for that matter!

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-16-2001 09:04 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, if I wanted to watch a movie at home AT ALL, first thing I'd hace to do is buy a TV. (Mine's busted and I don't care to spend the $$ to fix/replace it only to be able to watch it 2 days a week.)

My DVD ripper can decode the digital sndtrks. After that I can convert them to whatever other form I want. I just can't play back in surround sound with those two little speakers on the iMac.

Lately, I just get bored passively sitting and watching a movie. In the theatre I can tweek and tinker with the proj. At home I can rip and re-edit the movie and have fun with it. Like the way I rip the sound clips out. (eg: the "Telefunken U-47" clip)
Then when I get bored with a particular bunch of rips/clips I erase them and start a bunch of new ones.

Outside of the theatre, I have only watched, maybe 2 movies, this year. One of them was on TCM and the other one was on my iMac with the sound output hooked up to my (rather antiquated and crummy) stereo system.

With all the other "toys" I have (my theatres and my computer) I guess I just feel like I don't "need" to have a home theatre set up.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-19-2001 01:39 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with many of Joe's points about the aggravations of DVD. I still think DVD overall is a great thing (it sure beats the hell out of VHS, and most videostores have the discs to rent unlike the days of LD where the 12 inch platters were wrongly ignored by video stores).

Universal Studios gets on my nerves with how their DVDs are set up. Nearly all of them disable the "audio" button. You cannot switch audio tracks on the fly while the movie is playing. Maybe I have a short attention span or something, but I often like to listen to commentary tracks and then flip to the main audio track to replay a scene the director was talking about, and then go back to the commentary. I wind up having to take multiple trips out to the various menus to do this with Universal branded DVDs. Others like New Line, Warner, Fox, etc. usually don't force you to endure that garbage. I think New Line generally does a GREAT job with their DVDs. Their Infinifilm DVD of "Thirteen Days" was really impressive on organizing all those extras. And they usually have all their movie trailers in full 5.1 instead of the wimpy stereo mixes often seen on DVDs from most other studios. I hope Artisan gets the "Total Recall" teaser trailer done correctly in 5.1 or at least 4.1 when they release the SE DVD in September. The original 70mm "Total Recall" teaser was really cool. But it sucks in 2.0 stereo.

I hate all the FBI Warning/Interpol crap on the front of the discs with many movies. They should leave that crap off or just do like Warner Bros. does and stick it on the very tail end of the DVD movie. It might be okay to stick on the opening menu when you pop the disc into the drive, but they need to at least make us able to chapter past it. Buena Vista is one of the few that allows this. You can fast forward past those warning deals with Sony DVDs, but they stick them on the front of the movie after you have hit "play" at the opening menu. The "Close Encounters" DVD is really screwy. You get the DTS Digital Experience trailer, then the FBI warning junk, then the shortened and higher pitched THX Broadway trailer and then the movie starts.

The forced trailers situation with "The Sixth Sense" has outraged a lot of people. Not having to watch a bunch of promos and crap was one of the big advantages of DVD over VHS tape. However, most of this stuff (even a lot of the animated menu thingies) can be clicked past on a lot of DVDs by hitting the "next chapter" button. It doesn't work on all of them though.

With DTS audio on DVD, I think every single release with DTS requires the user to manually choose the DTS track even in the case of separate DTS releases where DTS has the only 5.1 track on the disc. The DVD Forum makes all such discs default to the Dolby Digital 2.0 or 5.1 track (or in one or two cases the LPCM 2.0 track). What would be nice is if all DVDs would let you cycle through all audio tracks by hitting the audio button. DTS on DVD will not hurt any non-DTS equipped home theater system. The user will only hear silence, unlike the white noise they would hear when trying to play a DTS CD or DTS LD. I guess there is just not any agreement on how users should be able to select audio tracks.

Does anyone want to add anything about Warner Home Video and their crappy Snapper cases?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-19-2001 06:04 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Does anyone want to add anything about Warner Home Video and their crappy Snapper cases?

I don't have a huge DVD library, but are talking about the ones with the paper cases and crappy plastic black thingy that keeps them closed? Yeah, they really suck. But I've seen those on New Line and other studio discs, I believe. I like the boxes like Gladiator and U-571. They should all be like that.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a technique of opening a brand new DVD? Lately they all come with these stickers you must peel off to open the box, and when I try to get the sticker started, I inadvertantly damage (although slightly) the clear plastic around the casing with my fingernail. Someone MUST have a better method.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-19-2001 07:34 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Snapper cases (which some people like to call "crappers") are indeed those paperboard ones. New Line Home Video uses those things on most of their video releases since New Line is owned by AOL/Time Warner.

The only paper type case I have seen that I liked was the case type for "Fight Club". That's actually a case that is well designed. The liner notes booklet has nice pocket for it to keep it from touching the discs. The graphics are done is a cool full bleed method (which is impossible for Alpha and Amaray plastic cases with paper inserts). Even though the "Fight Club" case is paperboard, it is not a flimsy weight of it like the typical Snapper case. "Close Encounters" 2 disc case really stinks for the thin paper cover and that weird way the discs fold out. Columbia should have used the "Fight Club" style case instead.

DVDs are now getting to be harder to open than a bottle of aspirin. And you need to take two of those after dealing with the typical Universal/Dreamworks case. There's not just one, but three pieces of tape to undo. And that enclosed "security device" thingie is a pain. Yesterday, I happened to be at a Musicland store in Aurora Mall in Aurora, CO (I'm now back in Lawton, the short vacation is over). I found a tin case version of "Akira" still priced at $29.99. But damn! The poor cashier (who was recovering from knee surgery) had to go back and forth with the DVD because it kept beeping the store security alarm when I was trying to leave. There was one security thingie on the outside of the case and then another one on the inside. One "security device" is enough guys!

One of the really bad things about those pieces of clear tape is that it can tear the clear plastic cover on the outside of most DVD cases when you try to take it off the package. I ripped the clear liner on my "Titanic" DVD just like that. I guess if they make the tape any tougher, it will rip the print design off those paperboard Snapper cases.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 08-19-2001 11:48 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And what about those clear cases that hold two discs, Like Fight Club, Seven, or Unbreakable? I've bought those brand new & opened them up only to have the disc fall out because the crappy plastic teeth that hold them in were all busted in shipping! Two other people I know have had the same problem. One guy even found that his new copy of Cast Away (not the same style of case) had one disc that was broken in half!
Who is in charge of quality control in this digital world?!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-20-2001 05:09 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Problems with discs popping loose is not exclusive to any particular case design. CD jewel style cases, Snappers, Alphas, Amarays, 2 disc paper board types like Fight Club or even the tin case used by the "Akira" ltd ed. version can have teeth break on them or other parts fail causing the disc to plop out in the case and get scratched all to hell.

The only advice I can give in that regard is check the contents of the package before you leave the store. At least then if you find the contents screwed up, you don't have to drive clear back to the place to get a replacement copy.

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JC Cowles
Film Handler

Posts: 77
From: St. Paul, MN
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 08-24-2001 02:42 AM      Profile for JC Cowles   Email JC Cowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Technicolor borrowed WB some of their film reel technology for use in thier cases. Fox too with their damn friggin huge Double-Disc Sets. IMHO.

As far as making them hard to open, I believe my grandmother (queen of perma-sealing christmas gifts in commercial packing tape) got a job sealing DVDs. Sorry. Personally, I use a knife on the opening seam and gently peal away from the center of the sides. For WB cases, I just bash them against the wall then put it back on the display rack and buy a Paramount or MGM release instead.

Regardless, I love DVD. In fact, I'm quite addicted to it. I own almost 150 DVDs since I bought my player last November. I presume I will soon exceed my collection on VHS of quantity I dare not speak.

I have a nice Onkyo Receiver that does DTS/DD 5.1 and Pro-Logic II. I use high quality Monster cables and speaker wire. I also use Monster component video and optical audio outputs on my DVD player. Component offers a superbly better picture than S-Video, Composite or RF. No my system doesn't sound as great as the 525-seat THX auditorium at my theatre. And the screen is a wee-bit smaller. But the addition of 5.1 sound in a home environment and vivid widescreen pictures available with DVD are amazing. I hate Pan & Scan. The fact that DVD highly supports widescreen formats is reason enough for me to own a DVD player. When else am I going to get to see Ben Hur in 2.76:1? I ain't seen anyone running it near me.

DVD is also causing studios to go back and FIX some of the TOTAL CRAP they released on VHS. Those filthy, dirt ridden, scratched up, flat toned, adjusted for "YOUR" screen tapes. No one adjusted sh*t for my screen...if they would've there'd be black bars on the top and bottom and I'd see the whole frame. Heck they've even gone back and fixed DVDs...multiple times even.

My top five favorite DVDs so far for amazing 5.1 sound and extras:
5. Gladiator (aurally amazing, decent extras and lots of them)
4. Superman, The Movie (gotta hear those titles wooshing by--very cool)
3. Saving Private Ryan (DTS version--bullets everywhere)
2. Fight Club (more the extras than the sound)
1. Eagles: Hell Freezes Over Tour (DTS at it's absolute finest)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-24-2001 02:56 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I definitely prefer coaxial digital cables over optical. Optical is more expensive and seems to offer no advantage whatsoever. Unless you like jitter.

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-24-2001 05:32 AM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What exactly do you mean by "jitter" with the optical? I use the optical and it is fantastic sounding. Very clean and crisp.


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Phil Connolly
Film Handler

Posts: 80
From: Derby, England
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-24-2001 01:32 PM      Profile for Phil Connolly   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Connolly   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think this is correct:

Jitter occurs on an optical cable when the cable is moved or vibrated etc..

The light is refracted within the cable, spdif uses a multi-mode cable so the light is refrated randomly and there are many different paths the light can take in the pipe , but if the cable moves the light path changes, sometimes slighty altering the length of the paths. Hence if there is vibration on the optical fibre (subwoofer induced...etc) the time base of the digital signal at the reciver is not steady because the transmision distance is constantly changing.

This error is Jitter and is usually very slight. Jitter can be eliminated by most DAC circuits by using a buffer and a crystal, to correct the time base. The buffer stores the bits and a crystal clock is used to read the data off the buffer at a regular rate.

The reason I prefer coaxial is this: with optical the signal comes of the disc its then processed into AES-EBU or whatever data format used. This electrical signal then needs to be converted to modulated light and sent down a pipe, converted from modulated light back to an electrical signal before going into the DAC.

It just seems to be over complicated, with coaxial the signal starts as an electrical one and stays that way - less chance of error.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-24-2001 05:42 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone notice a difference in sound quality in DTS DVD's vs DTS LaserDiscs?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-24-2001 05:55 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, I'm going to pull another non-sequitur here, but I hope the point adds something to the discussion:

A while back, in the 80's, I read some articles about fiber optic guitars. The strings were made of glass fibers and light was shined through them, just as you would a data signal. When the guitar was played, the strings would vibrate and modulate the light beam in the way that Phil describes. Some receiving electronics at the other end of the string changed the modulated light into and electrical signal that could be output to a regular guitar amp. I remember reading that a fiber electic guitar had a real funky-wierd sound. Not only that but you could make the strings change colors too! This invention was supposed to completely replace the standard guitar by the year 2000 but you know predictions like that.

Owing to that information, I might be tempted to recommend that peope using optical cables use cable ties, or somehting, to fix them to a solid surface if they want to use them for critical work. Personally, I'd stick with coax. You don't need any special tools/equipment to hook it up and repair it. With optical you have to burnish the ends of the fiber and use special connectors that you can't buy in a regular electronics place. Either that or you have to pay for factory made cables, which of course, you will pay a premium price for.

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