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Topic: Blu-Ray players to PUNISH users who hack

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2006 03:44 PM

A lot of "Detroit" car parts are actually made in Canada. If you go to a new car lot, I think they have to put labels on the cars now that say where the car is made or what percentage of the car was made where. It's been awhile since I bought a new car

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2006 06:13 PM

OK this thread is wandering way too far off topic. It's supposed to be about Blu-Ray players, not how perfectly American business is obviously run (no flaws!).

Greg and/or David S, do either of you agree with everything that is being done in the name of DRM and how they will implement it? I am not asking if you will buy the product or not, just if you see the tactics used as reasonable. How about effective? Also, do you think the consumer will tolerate this? Your opinions and reasons for them, please.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-15-2006 06:47 PM

DRM probably affects me a lot less than it does "some" users. All I want to do is play the effing movies I buy. I expect them to play without a lot of fuss. And I want the best quality possible. I'm not going to copy them, share them via BitTorrent, or do anything else like that.

If they come up with some crazy copy protection scheme that interferes with my ability to do the above, then I won't buy the product.

If I have to connect a player to the Internet in order to use it, I would be less-likely to invest in the format and buy a lot of discs. I mean, they'd know how much porn I was watching. I can't have that. [Wink]

I understand the paranoia about people freely copying digital content and not paying for it (other than buying blank media). If predictions about gigabit broadband coming to every home in the future come true, and if I made my living creating digital content, I'd be scared shitless too.

The task for the content providers is to protect their, uh, content, without making everyone who wants to buy it feel like a criminal even though they've paid for it. And not compromise the quality. If I feel like I'm being treated unfairly by them (or they're invading my privacy), I won't buy their product.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-15-2006 06:52 PM

Greg,

Thank you for attacking me peronaly. It gives me a chance to give the same back to you. Look around Greg, you are alone here. Just because you took a class about business (I would guess was taught by someone who is a life long teacher, and not a business person), doesn't allow you to say that you know everything about business, and we all know nothing. As I said, look around.

As you stated, I have my own business (I find it very interesting that you remember this, it says you have some sort of unfounded love-hate thing going on with me here). And Greg, I've got some shocking news for you, you don't need to own your own business in order to understand business!

It is time to leave your Rush Limbaugh brainwashed stuper, open your eyes, and relize that corporate America is destroying this country, and our freedoms, in order to make themselves even richer. Here is a good example of how bad American managment is. Delta Airlines WAY over paid upper maganment-morons whined about how much the pilots were making (forget that the pilots are some of the people who do the work that brings in the money). The pilots took large reductions in pay, and the managment-morons gave themselves a huge bonus. The company was in even worse shape afterword. With managment thinking like that, it is no wonder Delta is in bankrupsy.

So Greg, do you now know what it feels like to be attacked personally? I hope you will grow up, and not do it again. I apologise to the forum, but I felt justified.

Now a comment about the stupidity of the maganment at the "studios". The managment-morons at the studios cannot learn from their own mistakes. Some years ago several studios tried to stop the devel Betamax. If they had suceded, they would have lost untold BILLIONS from the sale of video cassetts. But did they learn anything? NO. Here they are again shooting themselves in the foot. And this kind of stupidity is not limited to the studios. The car makers in this country came real close to putting themselves out of business some 30 years ago, and are now doing the same stupid thing again.
When one person in a company makes the same thing as 1000 workers, and is therefore displacing 1000 workers, the company cannot servive that kind of arragance and stupidity. Don't forget that magament-morons do not do anything that directly brings in money, it's the workers that do the work that brings in the money. This is why strikes work, without workers a company does not produce products or services. Note that even though the maganment-morons are not there on the weekend, work still gets done, money till comes in. It sure looks to me like magenment-morons should only get $6.00 an hour.

Oh, and Greg, one last point. You think that compatision is good for America, but not for any "overseas" companies. Make up your mind.

Wow, that was one heck of a rant. I think I owe a beer to anyone who made it all the way through, bad spelling and all. Look me up next time your in Atlanta.

***BTW, I am told there is a report on ABC Primetime about radio payola between the record companies, and the big radio conglomartes (read that big greedy corporations). This is corporate America at it's worst, controling what you hear, so you will buy their CRAP.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2006 07:22 PM

Joe
I find the idea of having to be hooked to the internet to make anything work, to confining. Not to mention having an open door way to all sorts of nefarious potentials that lurk on the net.

Bruce
You call that an attack?
What is "compatision"
Guess you missed the part about having been in business for decades.
See ya comrade

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-15-2006 07:38 PM

Everyone loves to hold up the Delta Airlines and Ford and GM as proof that corporate America is completely fucked up. Well, those companies may be fucked up, and they may be big, but they are really a small part of corporate America. For every GM there are 1000 small companies complete with workers and managers and they do just fine. As far as manager-morons, if every manager is a moron, then every company should fail. They don't, so clearly not every manager is a moron. It baffles me why people think every manager in America is modeled after Ken Lay. Someone in every company has to make business decisions and take the risks to grow the business. Those are the managers. Do they deserve only $6 an hour? Are they all morons?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-15-2006 09:46 PM

quote: David Stambaugh
When did Ford and GM transfer their car making to China? That's news to me.

Both are building factories in China. And the Chinese are already making counterfeit cars! Yippie!

quote: David Stambaugh
A lot of wild statements not based in fact are being made in this thread. And a lot of the wholesale condemnation of "big business" is patently absurd.

Not every big American business is bad. I think Apple Computer is a good example. They're one of a few large American companies that come to mind who obsess more on the actual product they're selling rather than manipulating balance sheets to look better than they actually do.

There has been a long line of American companies who have done lots of bad things lately. What Enron did was unforgivable. The stunts from Tyco and Worldcom weren't very nice either. I've never had a high opinion of the tobacco industry. The food industry and its powerful lobby can be pretty evil at times too.

The entire health care industrial complex (everything from ambulance-chasing trial lawyers to American pharmaceutical companies) is a fantastic example of runaway greed. The savings that whole Medicare drug bill was supposed to create was more than offset by price increases before the bill was even signed into law. It's rather unique how the drug industry is one of very few areas where the government isn't into outsourcing or allowing cheap imports.

Meanwhile (basically to get back to the point of this thread) some very highly paid people in Hollywood are making what amounts to a series of really stupid decisions regarding how HD-quality movie discs will be designed and sold. They're also trying to force through other stupid decisions that may devastate the commercial theater business (like day and date DVD releases with theatrical releases).

Why are they trying to force through these policies, even when one can make a valid case they are destructive? It's all for short term gain. The executives at many of those movies companies are journeyman types who go from one unrelated company to the next. They didn't work their way up through the ranks and have little if any vested interest in the long term health of the company. They just want the short term gain so the board will give them a big fat bonus. Who cares what the decisions will do for the long term?

If the movie studios, or more exactly their parent corporations had vision a little farther than 1 to 3 quarters in the future they would realize they could make a lot more money by doing things differently.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2006 09:50 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
They didn't work their way up through the ranks and have little if any vested interest in the long term health of the company.

How could you possibly know that?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-15-2006 10:00 PM

I know Mike Ovitz didn't spend his entire career moving up the ranks at Disney. But he did make $250 million for six months time there.

Carly Fiorina didn't come up through the ranks at Hewlett Packard. She worked at other places, like AT&T before then. I don't remember who the CEO of HP is now, but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy sold washing machines in his previous job.

Look at Apple's history. Previous CEOs like John Scully worked at Pepsico before getting hired by Apple. It was Scully who laughed in the face of Bill Gates when Gates suggested licensing out the MacOS back in 1985. They didn't listen, so Gates took his idea and made Windows instead. Gil Amelio didn't come up through the ranks either. But he damned near ran Apple into the ground. Critics said he was more interested in features of the corporate jet rather than developing any good strategy for Apple. It took Steve Jobs, one of the guys who created the company and gave a damn about what it was selling to turn the operation around into a positive direction.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2006 10:03 PM

Ahhh common knowledge
Ok you win. You do have all the answers! [Big Grin]

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-15-2006 10:04 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
They didn't work their way up through the ranks and have little if any vested interest in the long term health of the company.

Names please, or maybe links to reference material. [Roll Eyes]

Do you know what stock options are? I bet very very few of the management-level decision makers don't have stock options in whatever company they work for. Stock options are a hella-powerful motivator to make sure a company does well. If they make poor decisions, their options are worthless. If they make good decisions, they make more money. Hell, I was a low-level manager for a startup, and I was lucky enough to get some stock options that grew in value over a period of years.

Besides, you're talking about high-profile CEOs. For every one of them, the same mega-company has 10,000 other decision makers helping keep the company on course. Maybe more.

Are GM and Ford building cars in China, or parts? Are they doing it on their own, or in partnership with Chinese companies? If it's parts, then they're late to the party, since most other American companies are already doing that. If it's complete cars, they'll have to be demonstrably superior to existing brands in every way if they're going to take hold.

For the most part, movie makers don't care about exhibitors IF exhibitors aren't helping the bottom line. If market conditions change drastically and more money can be made without exhibitors in the loop, then that's where the movie business will go. Why should the studios be sentimental about keeping movie theaters going? Business is business.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-15-2006 10:11 PM

quote: Greg Mueller
Ahhh common knowledge

Nevertheless, they are good, specific examples of journeyman CEOs.

quote: David Stambaugh
Are GM and Ford building cars in China, or parts? Are they doing it on their own, or in partnership with Chinese companies?

They're building complete vehicle manufacturing plants there, but I think they're having to do it in conjunction with Chinese companies as well. That should make the counterfeiting process more efficient.
[Razz]

quote:
For the most part, movie makers don't care about exhibitors. If market conditions change drastically and more money can be made without exhibitors in the loop, then that's where the movie business will go. Why should the studios be sentimental about keeping movie theaters going? Business is business.

The movie studios will make that move at their peril. I feel a movie is not a legitimate movie unless it has played in a commercial theater. It's a straight to video made for TV movie otherwise. Without commercial theaters, it's all TV. No better than NBC or HBO (one can make a case of that already being a reality).

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 02-15-2006 10:14 PM

I don't think theaters will disappear entirely. I also don't think there's much if any reason to release movies like "Big Momma's House 2" into theaters. The market has too many movie screens and it will shrink-to-fit over the next decade or so.

Crap! "Big Momma's House 2" has done over $80 Million. Damn - That blows my whole argument to shreds. [Razz]

Overpaid high-profile CEOs are easy targets, especially when their company falters under their leadership. But to think they're pulling all the strings and making every single strategic decision is attributing more power to them than they really have.

Apple Computer is a religion, always has been. Though I bet the people who've worked for Apple for a long time have plenty of dirt they could dish out if they chose too, same as any other company.

(I edited that previous post while you were responding to it Bobby so things are a little out of sync)

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-15-2006 11:40 PM

quote: David Stambaugh
Crap! "Big Momma's House 2" has done over $80 Million. Damn - That blows my whole argument to shreds.

I don't consider the argument blown to shreds, especially when one considers how few tickets have to be sold to reach that $80 million mark. The $100 million earnings mark hasn't been impressive in a long time. Some movies hit that mark and are still considered bombs.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-16-2006 08:52 AM

Bobby
You subtract the amount it took to create the item from the total sale price which gives you the amount of profit.

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