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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » SW:EP2 in Imax ?? (Page 4)

 
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Author Topic: SW:EP2 in Imax ??
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-19-2002 04:15 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My 80GB harddrive takes up for physical space than my 123GB drive.
So the longer digital movie might take up less 'space'.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-19-2002 09:28 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Physical space is usually not the issue. Having to purchase a new server system to handle higher resolution/less compressed data is the issue, just as a new platter system would be required for longer films that overfilled current platters.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-19-2002 09:49 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
First, ILM has been working on the IMAX version for months now. The conversion will be better than the original one.

The DMR process is a proprietary technology of Imax, so I fail to see what ILM has to do with anything. Unless you're referring to the new/deleted content.

This is the movie that will tell us what DMR is made of. I walked out of a 35mm screening of AOTC after five minutes because the look of it made me want to puke. I fully intended to see it in DLP, but never quite made it.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-19-2002 09:50 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know, I was joking... our QuBit server would probably have a 'heart attack' if it had to decode 'Imax Resolution'.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-19-2002 10:26 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Daryl wrote: "...our QuBit server would probably have a 'heart attack'..."

I've even witnessed "arrhythmia" with the one of the current Digital Cinema formats too (see the thread on "Digital Hiccups" when I saw "Ice Age" at the AMC Empire 25 in NYC last March).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-20-2002 08:58 AM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen SWEP2 in DLP studder and flash 5'x5' white squares. Oddly nothing I've ever seen from film.

Signs in DLP had more negative dirt than my 35mm prints.

"See it the last time, everytime. Only in DLP!"

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 10:36 AM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I meant by the ILM bit about them working on the IMAX version for months, was not that they were doing the conversion, but rather they had been working on resolution tweaking on the video source for months long before it went through the IMAX conversion.

Dave

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 11:02 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What exactly did Lucasfilm deliver to IMAX for them to use with their proprietary DMR process to make the 65mm IMAX printing negative? Other than editing and adding the additional scenes, was it the same Digital Source Master (DSM) used for the May 35mm/DLP release, or did it need further "optimization" or "tweaking" by Lucasfilm?:

Here's a flow diagram to show the likely process:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/mastering.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 12:18 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
resolution tweaking on the video source

You mean something which should have been done for the 35mm release.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 01:31 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let us not forget that until now, IMAX productions usually originated on 65mm color negative film. For the sake of comparison, EVERY current Kodak Color Negative Film has a MTF (Modulation Transfer Function) response that extends well beyond 50 cycles per millimetre:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/negative/

Conservatively taking 50 cycles per millimetre as a measure of film's sharpness (it's usually greater), that translates to the equivalent of 6960 x 4859 pixels on the 2.74 x 1.913 inch (69.60 x 48.59 mm) projectable area of the IMAX film print. Other origination formats don't even come close!

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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James B. Openshaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 106
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 09-20-2002 04:13 PM      Profile for James B. Openshaw   Author's Homepage   Email James B. Openshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would rather see IMAX DMR put to good use on a movie like "Empire Strikes Back".


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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 09-20-2002 06:03 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw this interesting tidbid in the current issue Boxoffice concerning converting "The Lion King" to IMAX. Quote is from Don Hahn, the film's original producer and supervisor of the IMAX version. Article doesn't mention anything about DMR though.

quote:
"When 'The Lion King' was made 10 years ago, it was drawn by hand but was archived digitally--so all 1300 or 1400 scenes are stored in such a way that we can actually increase the resolution and then reprint it on large-format, 15 perforation IMAX film with great resolution and pristine color. And or course we went through and looked at 80 or 90 different shots in the movie, where when we blew them up to the big screen [we saw] MAYBE CHARACTERS DIDN'T HAVE FACES (emphasis added), or there were some anomalies or color problems or things. In those cases, we went back in and corrected, fine tuned, touched up and changed little details......."


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 09:22 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As wonderful as digital technology is, if the image detail is not captured when the scene is shot, it's just not there. Images can be "sharpened" with edge enhancement and deblurring algorithms, grain can be softened, and dust "busted", but "up-rezzing" an image cannot create real image detail that isn't there in the first place.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-20-2002 09:43 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Amen to what John said. Take a look at a Sony TV with "Digital Reality Creation" and see what it tries to do with up-rezzing standard NTSC video. The result is just not very good, and it's plain awful if the source signal quality isn't pristine. You can't take thousands of dynamically changing moving images and consistently up-rez them to always look "better" than the source material using canned software manipulation algorithms.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 10:13 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Apples and oranges. Disney is not using the Imax DMR process.

They are using the same process for Lion King that they used for Beauty and the Beast -- when they archived the films as data files, they did so in such a way as to be able to up-rez it easily. The same concept as using vector imaging instead of pixels.

Someone else can probably explain this much better than I can, but I'm gonna try anyway. A very over-simplified explanation with many details skipped ...

If you've used Adobe Illustrator, you've used vector graphics. In a vector image, things such as lines are not stored as a series of pixels, but as a concept ... for example, a curved line is not a series of neighboring pixels, but a rendering of just a few points along the line and how they relate to each other.

So say your source material has a line with end points A and B that are X inches apart with point C in between (but not in line) Y inches from point A and Z inches from point B. There is an algorithm (or whatever) that can draw the curved line of A-C-B.

Take that same algorithm (or whatever) and take points A and B, placing them X feet apart and it can recalculate where point C should be based on values Y and Z and then re-draw the curved line of A-C-B on a larger scale.

You can see how this would work really well with animated material.

And now Bobby or Evans can un-confuse everybody.



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