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Author Topic: IMAX Basics
Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-02-2002 04:54 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One more thing.

What Dave was saying about the air jets was very understandable. I have one question though: Is the Lack of air pressure at the rotor gaps during ramp up the cause of those Strange scuff marks on the film shortly after the Picture Start frame on the Acad. Leader??? My boss is always talking about how bad it would be to lose air pressure during the show, But I think that vacuum would be more critical. But, I could just imagine how badly the film would be scuffed if the projector was to lose air.
Oh and one more thing, He also says that our machine is capapble of running 48Fps, but I am not sure about that. I can see no marks on the Cam assembly to determine if it truly is capable. Can anyone tell me what to look for???

Thanks!
Tristan

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-02-2002 09:19 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the light output of the SR is so uneven due to the size of the collector. It's only about 12-14 inches in diameter, compared to the GT which is more like 20-24 inches. The advantage of the vertical lamp in the SR is that the light only bounces off of one mirror to get to the aperture, where the 15k lamphouse bounces off of two mirrors.

I've not used a Classic, but both the GT and the SR have air as soon as the rotor starts turning. I don't see why the Classic would be any different, but apparently it is.

Rotors are very unique in that some will scratch film easily without air and some won't. In Tulsa, the SRs didn't; in Dearborn, the GT didn't; here in Grand Rapids, the SRs do. A lot of factors apply here, including booth humidity and the application of PhotoGard.

Here's a sample of an air jet scratch. It's in the shape of an arrow pointing away from the direction of film travel (picture is upside down); individual marks can be light to the point of be unnoticeable or heavy enough to dig through the emulsion. The rotor side of the film is rubbed against the air jet when the center of the film is bowed as the loop forms. The edges don't scratch because the stators and rotor segment rails don't let the film go anywhere it's not supposed to be.

Losing air pressure during a show will scare the living crap out of you. It will also severely scratch film on the air jets if you have one of those rotors that scratch film when you turn it by hand. When a GT E-stops, it immediately turns off the rotor air; on an SR, the entire system remains powered until the rotor has stopped.

The vacuum isn't as important as the air jets are (regarding scratches). All the aperture vacuum does is suck the film against the registration pins and hold it against the field flattener to be projected. I have not seen film damaged due to lack of vacuum, though I haven't exactly conducted a scientific study. I have seen an SR run without a field flattener, though the picture was all over the place and it made quite a racket. I wouldn't try that one at home.

Somewhere I saw pictures of a GT-HD projector and seem to remember a bit of extra stuff under the hood. I don't know what changes would be necessary on a Classic, though I'm sure Gordon could answer that one. I think his projector has probably seen other frame rates.



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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-03-2002 11:52 AM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Thanks for the Info.

Got a few other questions about the system.

Does Imax make a Cue detector system that can be retrofitted to the older projectors so that you can place projector stop cues on the film?? I have seen a projector tail out once - not a pretty sight.
Additionally - My supervisor is considering a DDP II system to replace the DTS and Dubber - Would this be a cost-effective way to improve sound quality? Right now, when using DTS - we cannot add trailers to the film unless DTS has put them on the CD along with the feature soundtrack. We had used a D-TAC system in the Boise Imax, and I was very impressed with the Showlist setup.
My concern is this - On a new system, the D-TAC is tied into the automation of the projector and can control show start and ligts etc..... So how easily is the new system adapted to this old Projector with no automation whatsoever?

One more question:
My boss has asked me to find a way to set up a switch to change between the DTS system and the Dubber. Right now we have to go behind the Rack and change some XLR's and the Tach connection. I was thinking about using a bunch of P&B relays to do the job and have them all tied into a toggle switch. But, I am worried that the relays will introduce some Hum into the system. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Thanks
Tristan

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-03-2002 06:35 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
By "older projectors" I assume you mean the relay-based systems (as opposed to the PLC-based systems). You should get ahold of Pete or Wayne at the Detroit Science Center. They just upgraded to a DDP-II from an analog sound source and they have a relay-based system. Wayne would be best to tell you how the DDP-II compares to the DTAC with regard to the automation, as he has used both. I do know, however, that they still have to stop the show manually. Personally, I would keep the dubber as a backup to the digital system. Send me a private email and I'll get you the contact info for the DSC.

I haven't used the 15/70 DTS system, so I don't feel qualified to answer that question.

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-08-2002 09:30 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

What I am trying to develop is just a basic switch to switch 6 channels of audio from one source to another, but without having to physically move cables from one device to another.
Karen at DTS says that they may have something that will work for us. The main reason for the post was to find out if putting relays on line-level sources could cause hum in the system. Currently we are using a Sound mixing board to switch between sources but there is not enough room on the board to accomodate both the Dubber and the DTS system. We are pushing for the DDP system, but for now we have to find a solution using the existing equipment.

Another imax question. On our old projector (relay based) the rotor air pressure gauge reads 0 psi when the projector is running, but when the dowser is opened, then the pressure jumps up to the normal 60psi. My question is: is this normal for this era of projector, and, would running the projector with the dowser closed damage the film?

Thanks
Tristan

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted 03-08-2002 10:32 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds to me like the gauge is somehow connected to the dowser piston. Do you have an 8-segment rotor? If so, you will notice a dramatic difference in booth volume between air and no air. No air will be louder, as the film will be slapping around in there recklessly (over-simplified, but you get the idea).

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-08-2002 10:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FYI Ontario Place Cinesphere still has 2 prints of Man Belongs to Earth

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-08-2002 10:58 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam,


There is a definate change in sound when the dowser is closed. And there is noticeable marring on the film after the credits, because the dowser is closed at that point. The dowser button on the projector console is not functioning at this point in time, instead we are using the "Dowser Test" toggle on the back of the lamphouse. The problem is supposed to be fixed at next service. I hate to say it but the projector is very problematic. There are a few problems that I have experienced that make starting a show a very nerve-racking time. For instance:
Sometimes at show startup the dowswer will somehow open itself, thus showing Acad. leader on the screen. The only way to shut the dowser is to flip the toggle switch up and then down again. At that point the lamp shuts off for some strange reason. So that causes the need to re-strike the lamp.

And- sometimes in the morning when things are just getting turned on, The "system on" button does not work. It does nothing. The solution is this: I open the MKII reel unit, turn the local disconnect switch off in the bottom the reel unit, and then remove the positive battery cable in the top of the reel unit. I wait a few seconds, replace the terminal, switch the reel unit on via the local disconnect knob, and hope for the best. Usually it takes a repeat of 10 times to get the system to power up. The IMAX techs are stumped by the problem.
I suspect that it is in the E-Stop system somewhere.

Going from SR projectors to the mammoth old beast is a hard change to deal with. Maybe I should quit whining and just deal with it

Let me know if you know of any solutions to the problems
Thx- Tristan

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-08-2002 11:02 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

My boss must have been blowing smoke, but if you go to BMZ the only print listed is the one at Spokane.
"Man Belongs to Earth" was the premier show for Expo '74 wasn't it??

Tristan

P.S. The question isn't "What Prints does the Ontario Cinesphere have?" The real question is "What prints does the Ontario Cinesphere not have?" I have seen those picures of your film library- very impressive!

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-09-2002 01:20 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, Gordon - what's your take on Tristan's rotor air? I don't remember the classic in Detroit doing that, but their projector was up in the doghouse, so I couldn't swear to anything.

Tristan - have you tried a good swift kick?

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Dick Vaughan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-09-2002 05:33 AM      Profile for Dick Vaughan   Author's Homepage   Email Dick Vaughan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tristan

Who is your regular IMAX tech? Have you spoken to them about the air pressure oddities?

Since having the SR 's installed here 3 years ago some of the niceties of what air pressure gauges did what when on ole system 34 have fled from my brain. Be thankful you have an external pressure gauge. There are none on SR projectors.
We had a problem 2 years back when the rotor pressure dropped and film got scratched.No alarm. The only air pressure alarm is on the main supply.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-09-2002 06:34 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Something is wrong with the airplumbing
The old 4K aircooled classic should have about 52lbs on the rotor and the douser should not effect it
As to prints they are numerous many but in the case of Man belongs to earth the soundtrack was loaned out years ago adn all we have is a music track
When I last visited DKP there was a lot of material fo it there though and I believe I saw some soundtracks and the neg

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-09-2002 06:36 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Hello again

We have spoken to the Tech about all the problems listed. The rotor air gauge situation does not seem to be a big concern to him. I am hoping that the problems can be fixed on the next service call.

The SR projectors are equipped with a Rotor air pressure gauge. It is located beneath the projector cover on the left hand side of the projector. Why they decided to put the gauge out of view of the operator is beyond me. I have seen a "Rotor air pressure low" alarm on the system in Boise. The system was installed in '99. I can't imagine that there is an SR projector out there that does not have some sort of warning device to alert the operator of low rotor pressure. Everyone is familiar with the usual beep-beep of the "Air Pressure low" alert that is displayed when the air tank is drained at night. That system will even warn you if you lose 1 of the 3 phases of power supplied to the rectifiers.

-Tristan

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-05-2002 09:33 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
*bump for Paul*

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-05-2002 09:37 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Aha, so THAT's what caused those scratches we saw at the IMAX at Fair Park a week ago. Interestingly enough, they were very bad through the "welcome to the Dallas IMAX" 8 minute intro, and then they plagued the first 10 minutes and the last 10 minutes of the film. The middle of the show was pretty clean though. I was wondering if this could have been caused by rewinding with improper tension, as it only occured at the ends of the roll.

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