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Topic: Digital Screen Network Problems

Amanda Mundin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Registered: Sep 2005

posted 03-20-2008 05:24 AM

NEC NC800C
Bulb has 1200+ hours on it, there should be 500+ hours left on it. Since recently having the power upped to 87% to reach 14footlamberts the bulb has decided to turn itself off 3 times, twice during the middle of a show. Reducing the lamp power down to 79% seems to keep it running ok. There's no image flicker, image on screen looks great. Anybody had anything similar?

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-20-2008 09:04 AM

I've read most of these posts and compared the comments with those of the two techs who set up the recent screening of the "John Adams Mini Series that took place at this theatre. They set up the NEC projector they brought in, then checked out our Barco DP 100 and did all the software/firmware upgrades necessary, changed the 6k bulb that had 3500 hrs. on it set both machines to overlay each other nearly perfectly. Both techs said that even under ideal circumstances with digital you cross your fingers and say a little prayer when you push the button to start. About one minute before show time the power went out for about 7 minutes, it took 15 minutes to reboot both projectors, the servers and all the sundry peripherals and check everything.
I believe digital projection will be fantastic one day but for now it just is not ready for the demands of 8-10 hrs a day 365 a year. It seems to be at the point film projectors were in 1911.

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-20-2008 11:21 AM

quote: Bill Enos
it just is not ready for the demands of 8-10 hrs a day 365 a year.

Not true in our case . . . . . we have been digital on all our 46 screens for over 2 years, the past year with at least 97% digital runs . . . . so far the Christie CP2000h projector has proven almost as reliable as a 35mm (probably more reliable if you factor in print issues), the server still needs work but is definitely up to the task of the daily grind . . . . . . . I'd say our boot times are about a minute for the Christie and around 5 minutes for the server (but our servers are on a UPS and will only be affected by a sustained power outage).

On the lamp issue - we've seen something similar on the Christies when the power supply starts to go bad (the H ballast), when they start going bad on a higher wattage lamp the circuit breaker blows if the power is too high, then eventually it constantly blows the breaker(our staff has learned the signs of a bad ballast and they now get replaced before we lose shows) . . . . . not exactly the same situation, but similar.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-20-2008 12:15 PM

One of the Irish sites I service the sound and 35mm equipment told me that they were experiencing a 'worse than 90% failure rate' with their digital equipment. NEC projectors and Doremi servers. [Roll Eyes]

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 03-20-2008 12:20 PM

quote: Bill Enos
About one minute before show time the power went out for about 7 minutes, it took 15 minutes to reboot both projectors, the servers and all the sundry peripherals and check everything.

No Battery backups for the servers and the peripherals?

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David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-20-2008 12:59 PM

Greetings

A the end of the day, failure rate on digital systems will always be high - irrespective of projector/server manufacturer. At the end of the day these devices are merely pc's. How often does one have to hit Cnt-Alt-Del on one's pc!

They are inherently unsuitable, unreliable and costly for the purpose of motion picture exhibition to paying customers.

No doubt theses leasing companies will end up going down the Swannee in a few years time when the whole shebang falls to pieces around them.

And well deserved too!

From a stormy Cambridge

Goodnight.

David

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-20-2008 01:22 PM

I believe one in the Republic of Ireland already did, and were bought up by an arm of RoI's biggest exhibitor.

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 03-20-2008 06:17 PM

quote: Pete Naples
One of the Irish sites I service the sound and 35mm equipment told me that they were experiencing a 'worse than 90% failure rate' with their digital equipment. NEC projectors and Doremi servers.

Damn - I knew someone would find me out eventually [Big Grin]

But seriously, I know for a fact that some installs did not have proper HVAC or a suitable room environment. I think part of the problem was the rush to "roll out" the technology - the media were led to believe that "all Irish cinema screens would be digital" by the end of 2005 [Confused]

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-21-2008 03:44 AM

Brian, the HVAC etc in that booth are up to scratch, it was designed with digital in mind.

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Amanda Mundin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Registered: Sep 2005

posted 03-21-2008 10:00 AM

We've probably had 95% success rate with the digital equipment, it's proven to be very reliable apart from a few niggles mentioned here, hopefully it will stay that way.
We don't have any external extract on the NEC projector, we were told we only needed extract if we were to have the Christie CP2000, but we ended up with the NEC NC800C, which isn't built with external extract in mind. I'd be interested to know how many people have fashioned some kind of extract to fit this projector and if people think that that helps in any way?

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 03-21-2008 04:15 PM

quote: Pete Naples
Brian, the HVAC etc in that booth are up to scratch, it was designed with digital in mind.

Sorry Pete, I was thinking of older boxes where the D-Cinema equipment had been recently added. Which makes your comments all the more worrying.

To offer a possible answer to your question Amanda, if the NEC NC800C does not require forced extraction, perhaps another approach could be to ensure overall room temperature is kept to a reasonable level, in line with practice for server rooms in offices, etc.

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David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-21-2008 04:26 PM

Greetings All

Amanda stated that they have a 95% success rate with digital. That's not very good.

Going back to the days when I ran movies in theatres that sat 3000+ cusomers, I never had to have a tally of "failure rate". At the end of the day, if you charge £x for a show, then one is entitled to see that show uninterupted.

Digital is nt ready for a market that demands high standards of presentation. No matter who you are.

POST EDITED TO REMOVE LIBELOUS REFERENCES

Hurrah for the useless masterers!

Goodnight

David

Only my point of view, but I reckon, a valid one.

Mind you, I think those DoReMe servers are poop.

[ 03-22-2008, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: David Graham Rose ]

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-22-2008 05:51 AM

David whilst I agree 100% with your sentiments I don't think that the market demands high standards of presentation, it demands digital it must be good it's digital), cheap and now. On the whole I believe that the standard of digital presentation is good enough for the masses, when it works....

It's only people like you and I that demand high standards of presentation everytime, and we are not in the majority. Hence why I won't set foot in my local cinema, unless I'm on the companies time. There's no DLPs in there either.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-06-2008 07:23 PM

quote: Amanda Mundin
We've probably had 95% success rate with the digital equipment, it's proven to be very reliable apart from a few niggles mentioned here, hopefully it will stay that way.
We don't have any external extract on the NEC projector, we were told we only needed extract if we were to have the Christie CP2000, but we ended up with the NEC NC800C, which isn't built with external extract in mind. I'd be interested to know how many people have fashioned some kind of extract to fit this projector and if people think that that helps in any way

Amanda,

I know you posted this several months ago now, but how are you getting on with the NC800C now. 95% (one problem show in 20) doesn't sound very good, but that was early days, and maybe things have settled down since then. I assume that you've been converted to the Doremi player now; how do you find that compared to the original one?

The NEC at Croydon is extracted, and has been since it was first installed. The flexible ducting is just held in place by a couple of cable ties through the mounting brackets, I assume that's what they are, but I'm not sure what was supposed to mount on them, on the corner of the projector, as can be seen in the picture. he wire inside the ducting is bent to wrap around the rear corner of the projector. It's a small, rather cramped projection room, and I think it would get quite unpleasant up there if it wasn't extracted.

I haven't had any problems with the projector, but a couple with the player; one show jumped back to the beginning after a few seconds, for no obvious reason, and another one wouldn't start, and I had to re-boot the system. Both of these are some time ago. I'm aware of one film which wouldn't load, and a new copy had to be obtained. I seldom work at the cinema now, this evening was the first time for several months, but I'm not aware of any serious problems.

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 12-07-2008 09:34 PM

In the 22 years I've been at this theatre we've done at least 22,880 screenings with our obsolete 55 years old film machines with WITHOUT A SINGLE LOST SHOW. When digital projectors can equal half that it'll be ready for prime time and not until.

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