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»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Digital Cinema Forum » Change Over To Digital Cinema (Page 2)

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Topic: Change Over To Digital Cinema

Ian Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 317
From: Nambucca Heads, Australia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 03-09-2005 07:09 AM

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Stephen
I understand what your saying but i feel this industry HAS to "move on" or it will die eventually!I don't know whether D-Cinema has all the answers but if it does provide better distribution and more consistent picture quality levels then we have "moved on".Change is usually difficult.

Hi Steve
The two systems worked fine for a couple of weeks after installation but then both XD-10's(at what seemed like the same time)stopped switching the CSP1200 to Digital at the start of a DTS show.Not long after this happened the XD-10's stopped switching the CSP to Non-sync music at the end of the DTS show.So we have been operating the CSP's manually since then.
I have been doing the fault finding after getting instructions from the installer by phone.
What I found was the Control Logic Card in the CSP was faulty.This was proven by making up a 25 pin connector and touching the earth on pin 12 to each of the control lines(pins 1-8) and the DIG 2 control line was not switching on both CSP's.
Sounds wierd? it gets even wierder!
So after much delay we recieved a good Control logic card which I proved straight away to be switching all the control lines correctly.Plugged it in-the XD-10 will still not switch the CSP at the start of a DTS show.
What it looks like to me is the XD-10 is taking out the control logic card.
Much correspondance has gone on between the installer,DTS and Panalogic and I still have faulty equipment.
The manuals that come with the equipment appear to give conflicting information regarding the 25 pin cable that connects to the CSP's automation socket.
I still don't understand why they were both working then both developed the same problems.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-09-2005 08:50 AM

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quote: Ian Bailey
this industry HAS to "move on" or it will die eventually

What better way to die a quick death than to offer the same technology in the theaters that's already available in the home? Why will anyone go out anymore? The answer is IMAX, 70mm, 35mm, 3D, etc... things that are NOT available in the home.

It's funny. In the 50s when TV made people stay home, they invented CinemaScope, 3D, etc... and it worked. Now, when TV (read "home theater set ups") is keeping people from going to the theaters, what's the industry's answer? Install TV in the theaters! YEAH! [thumbsup]

[thumbsup]

[thumbsup]

[thumbsup]

That's the ticket! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2005 11:59 AM

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quote: Monte L Fullmer
(can you imagine Mike converting his Roxy over to DLP projection? He'd go bankrupt in a heartbeat, even though it would look great in his "little palace")

Oh I imagine it'll happen some day....I plan to be around the biz for quite a while! [Smile]

[Smile]

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Why will anyone go out anymore?

Same reasons they have always gone out....
- To get out of the house;
- To see the picture on the HUGE theatre screen and hear the HUGE theatre sound;
- To get away from their screaming kids for a couple of hours;
- To take someone out for dinner and an evening's entertainment;
- And because the theatre will be the only place they can see the current blockbuster movie that they WANT to see right now this very second!

None of which you can get at home. And the only way the film companies can screw any of it up is by altering the last item on my list.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2005 12:35 PM

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"- To get away from their screaming kids for a couple of hours;"

Guess what, They take the kids with them so they scream at the theater. At least around here

"- And because the theatre will be the only place they can see the current blockbuster movie that they WANT to see right now this very second!"

As an anti-piracy move, studios are moving closer and closer to simultaneous release to DVD

"None of which you can get at home. And the only way the film companies can screw any of it up is by altering the last item on my list."

Yep, and they are in the process of doing it

So you think seeing video on a "great big screen" with pixels the size of basketballs is going to draw a crowd? Try sitting about 3 feet from your TV and see if you think it looks cool

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Eric Hooper
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 532
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-09-2005 01:01 PM

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Finally, you guys are beginning to realize what I've been saying all along....

Movie theatres are going to become extint at this rate. Or at least, there will only be exclusive houses that the film companies will show their movies in to an 'elite' crowd, before releasing the DVD, streaming video on demand, whatever new format there is, etc...

You'd be a fool to open a new movie theatre now a days..

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-09-2005 01:06 PM

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quote:
- To see the picture on the HUGE theatre screen and hear the HUGE theatre sound;

With home versions of DLP and theater versions of DLP, you're crazy if you think the technologies well NEVER converge. People can then make their home screens as big as they want. They can already almost do that now. And they can make their sound as big as they want right now. Until lossless DTS becomes common place anyway.

quote:
- To get away from their screaming kids for a couple of hours;

... and listen to everyone else's screaming kids and cell phones and every thing else. Surely.

I don't think the theater industry can survive on people who just want to "get out of the house."

quote: Eric Hooper
You'd be a fool to open a new movie theatre now a days..

You'd be a fool to open a cookie cutter first run multi/mega plex, I agree.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2005 07:07 PM

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I forgot, most of the multiplexes are in Movie Theatre Hell, AKA big cities. Maybe it's only in small towns that the kids are kept under control, cell phones are not allowed, etc.

Sorry, I just refuse to believe theatres are on the way out. They will survive, for the same reasons restaurants have survived. There is no shortage of screaming kids in restaurants, but more people are eating out than ever. And the food is nowhere near as good as home-cookin'. People like to get away from home, simple as that. They will continue to do it as long as the theatres are a pleasant place to go to.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2005 07:28 PM

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How much does it cost for a "nice" home theater setup? $1,000? $2,000? Not inculding the price of the "Plasma Screen" that will self-destruct in a few years.

At $8.00 per ticket, you could buy 250 movie theater tickets for the price of a home theater setup! I don't know ANYBODY who buys watches movies that much... Even at HOME!

For that money you could go to the movies every Friday night for a YEAR! You'd still have enough left over to pay for a ticket for your friend and spend about $10.00 PER PERSON on popcorn!

On top of that, you don't have to do ANYTHING but sit down, enjoy your popcorn and watch the movie! There's somebody to take care of the film and make the food. There's even somebody to clean up after you!

Of course, there's nothing like snuggling up on the sofa in front of the TV on a cold winter's night but that doesn't justify spending $2,000 just so that you COULD stay home and watch a video... on the off-chance you FELT like it!

It's the same idea with movie theaters going digital... Why in the hell would they want to tear out perfectly good movie projectors and replace them with new ones at a cost of $250,000 apiece?! Even at $25,000 apiece it would be a losing proposition!

This whole thing about movie theaters going out of business is a bunch of bull to me.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 03-09-2005 08:58 PM

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THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE THEATER BUSINESS WILL EVER DIE!!

People like to be waited on. Like Mike said restaurants have survived, even though people can make a better meal at home for most likely less money...they don't. I'm guilty of this, I hardly ever eat at home. I'm always at a restaurant or fast food place...I just don't have the time...or when I do, I don't feel like cooking the damn food...I want some one to do it for me.

Same goes for the theater, people want some one else starting there movie, making there popcorn. They just want to veg for two hours in a dark room watching the newest film they can.

quote: Greg Mueller
As an anti-piracy move, studios are moving closer and closer to simultaneous release to DVD

There will never be a simultaneous release of DVD/Film ever...I think we've reached the closest release that will ever happen this past year with Surviving Christmas...Look at all the big movies that were released in the the theater...you didn't see the release of the DVD for 4-8 months after it was released. Heck even some of them almost a year later. Movies that underachieve at the theater are of course going to be brought out on DVD as fast as possible to capitalize on the people who liked it, buying it. And the people that didn't see it in the theater renting it.

The average DVD release is about 4 months...not quite simultaneous in my book.

Kurt

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-09-2005 09:15 PM

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I am beginning to adopt the opinion of "pro digital cinema". Let's face it. Theaters suck ass nowadays with only a few exceptions (less than 1% of the total I am guessing). Everybody here on this forum talks like they do a whiz-bang job in the booth, but in reality I bet that is far from the case. It's all talk, no shock. Once digital cinema gets enough resolution (double that of HDTV should do it) then we can get all of the crappy people out of the booth and finally have some decent presentations. But the sound will still suck ass and I'm sure the equipment won't be maintained. So once Blu-Ray or HD-DVD become big enough to have a large library of decently priced movies, then the home theater experience will exceed the movie theater experience on all levels with the exception of actually getting your fat ass outside of your house for a few hours. The inexpensive room I put together for myself sounds loads better than ANY movie theater in the Denver metro area, and that is something I guarantee. And I don't just watch movies on my setup, I also play games and watch a wee bit of TV as well as other sources of video. So the argument that it would be cheaper just to buy a movie ticket every week just doesn't hold water.

Movie theaters need to start offering something I cannot get at home, and no theater does that anymore. We need bigger screens and better sound. Not gonna happen. Going to a movie theater these days is about as special as going to McDonalds... they're all basically the same and the experience never stands out in a good way. And yes, I'm sure that YOUR theater probably sucks, too, though you will talk about what a great job you do there. I don't even have to go there to find out. If you think otherwise of your theater, then tell me something about your theater that will get me off of my ass and into its doors. I betcha can't.

Why do I sound so pissy? I am sick of listening to people on this forum talk like they know everything. Only *I* know everything, so give it up already!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-09-2005 09:26 PM

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Randy's back and forth analysis between home cinemas and the attending the theatre in the matter of cost is an excellent presentataion of good logical conclusions of what one can do to use their money wisely.

It's called "a trade-off": Just how one wants to be entertained-plain and simple.

Yet, I know people who have both at home: film and digital for their entertainment and have their "home cinemas" decked out to the max. Course, why being of this comfort is that the presentation and the atmosphere is at the ultimante level. No bawling kids, talking, smelling dirty auditoriums, people walking in front of you, et.al.

And some who JUST want to get out of the house to be "spoiled and pampered" to feel like celebrities attending a premiere showing.

It's just the tradeoff of the masses. And both work well. Thus, both are considered winners.

-Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-09-2005 09:48 PM

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Ian,

I have several DTS-XD10 CSP-1200 installations and notta one control card crap out from any. Now I have had some control card issues about a year ago but not with DTS connected causing them.

Here is one example:

I connect the DTS XD10 to Digital 2 as always (even if there is no Dolby Digital around for Digital 1) and also still use the DTS control connector instead of the automation connector. I set the XD10 to DTS 6D emulation and make my own control cable to connect them up. DTS changed their pinout on the XD10 in comparison to their older players so I make a custom cable and have never had an issue.

One thing to remember on a Panastereo with DTS (and other digitals) they have a set of option switches of which one will prevent the player from selecting anything after Non-Sync has been selected for a period of time. This was to counteract the orginal DTS-6 player's habit of dropping digital, the automation going to non-sync at the end of the show...then reaquiring digital for some reason, then dropping to A or SR for the tail run out.

Make sure option A dip switch 2 is ON to defeat this feature.

On the automation connector there are numerous tally lines...if you are connected to that from the DTS XD10 I would make sure that all of the lines are verified not to cause potential harm.

Steve

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2005 10:21 PM

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"There will never be a simultaneous release of DVD/Film ever..."

That's a pretty positive statement. The studios will follow the way that makes them the most money, fastest. If it can be done in home release, it will be done in home release. Sorces I know say that the push is on to move towards faster and faster DVD release to thwart piracy. Makes sense to me. Wishful thinking be damned

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-09-2005 11:02 PM

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They should sell the DVDs in the theater lobby.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-10-2005 12:20 AM

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quote: Mark J. Marshall
They should sell the DVDs in the theater lobby.

This recommendation would remove the "supply and demand" of consumers since they have to goto the theatre to purchase for their DVD habit, thus choking out what the main idea is behind home entertainment sales: To sell in mass amounts at a bargain price to attract the masses and make money that their original features didn't make, or just made in the boxoffice, since we know that producing a CD/DVD is just pennies a disc.

Plus, called a "conflict of interest" if a proprietor sells the same product that he's leasing, or have leased.

-Monte

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