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Author Topic: Doomsday is just around the corner and teaser titles are no longer allowed: free DLP! Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-23-2004 06:53 PM                     Here's a funny point that I'm sure at least a few people have pondered: "Analog" 35mm film projectors have some similarities to old, classic cars. Those newer "digital cinema" video projector systems are more like the newer cars. With the old classic cars, you could actually work on the things in your garage and not have to do too awful much to keep them maintained. You can't do too much to new cars without taking them to the dealer. There, they have to hook them up to all sorts of computer systems, and do crazy shit like taking the engine up out of the motor mounts just to get to some otherwise inaccessible chip to fix the problem. And then the car is never fixed quite like it should be. You've just got to pony up much dollars to buy a new one. A regular 35mm film projector isn't anywhere near as complex or costly to maintain as a complicated video projector. A film projector can last decades. DLP projectors are getting replaced after only a few years. Blah. The whole idea of spending $200,000 on what amounts to an enterprise level computing system to show movies on one screen --and then expect to do so without the trouble of projectionists (or rather, people who can maintain it, make sure it doesn't catch on fire, etc.) is pretty laughable. Maybe I'm stupid or something, but it would seem to be the less complicated analog setup would be the easier and cheaper thing to maintain.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-24-2004 11:30 AM                        Excuse me if this question has been answered elsewhere...we just finished an addition of 4 screens, 35mm, and I had been following this thread. The features are showing on Simplex, ORC (but with Technalight upgrades), Dolby CP650, Ashly amps, basically a nice set of equipment. The ad guys installed the usual pre-show LCD. I know if DLP comes along eventually the trailers and policy will likely run on DLP but are/will theatres be running the ads for the local dentist and car dealers on the DLP as well? So many negatives come to mind thinking about this...  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-24-2004 04:01 PM                     That's a great point, Bobby. The proponents of digital cinema are telling us "it ain't broke, so let's fix it".  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 11-24-2004 06:03 PM                     If the studios and distributors keep turn out shit quality prints like they have done for the last years, people will not notice the change even to an inferior digital system. Some days ago I saw THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE in the absolutely worst print I ever watched in 35mm format. Every type of video projection looks better - and with today's fine duplicating processes and print stock there's absolutely no reason why a major motion picture should look (even in foreign market prints) like 16mm 500 ASA high speed push-processed two stops. Sometimes I wonder if they try to kill theatrical release altogether by lowering the standards below DVD quality.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-24-2004 09:26 PM                    I watched a show on the History channel tonight talking about the history of cinema and near the end of the show it talked briefly about D- Cinema. One of the comments made by a representative of, I believe Loews theaters, was that one of the problems they have had was with blue specks on the picture caused by dust. He said that was easily taken care of. Of course you only have one maybe two units to look after. one could only imagine trying to keep dust controlled on all 20 or what ever screens.  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 12-16-2004 11:29 AM                     Good deal in Europe? XDC formed by the server manufacturer EVS is offering the four different packages. Prices from 500-1500 euro per month The most expensive system 2k dlp 12k ANSI lumen Free installation and training Free replacements lamps Digital server , 8 hours Satellite connection At least 50 digital movies in the first year Every movie ordered is deducted partly from your renting cost Non movie use of the projector is taxed  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-16-2004 01:39 PM                    quote: Darryl Spicer blue specks on the picture caused by dust How does dust cause blue specs and not black or any other color specs? Why blue?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-16-2004 02:04 PM                        quote: Mattias Ohlson Good deal in Europe? XDC formed by the server manufacturer EVS is offering the four different packages. Prices from 500-1500 euro per month. Published source of that information, especially regarding the pricing? As I understood the XDC announcement at Cannes 2004, the distributors were expected to substantially subsidize the system, so you really need to add that to those figures to figure the REAL cost. What distributors have actually agreed to this proposal? What theatres have actually leased systems? quote: Mark J. Marshall How does dust cause blue specs and not black or any other color specs? Why blue? With an additive system, dust or a defect in the red, green, or blue channel will result in a colored defect on screen. For example, a "dead" blue pixel in the "on" position will show as a blue spot on screen.  |  IP: Logged Jannette McQueen Film Handler Posts: 50 From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Registered: Sep 2003 posted 12-16-2004 03:14 PM                     I've only been working in projection since Oct 2002. I haven't been doing it for long, but like Pete Naples, I got into it even though it's a "dying trade". I'm going to be very sad when DLP becomes mainstream. But I guess I can't really be all too surprized. The theater I work at now has a digital projector to show wrestling matches. It's already creeping into my life. I agree with everything that Bobby said. With the Digital Projection equiptment, you're handing things over to people like Bill Gates. How many times did you have to restart Windows98 in a sitting? I don't know all the specifics about the digital projection equiptment, how "great" it looks. I've only read testimonials. Presentations where you can see the individual pixels up on the screen. Read about the drawbacks for certain types of digital projection. Even when I was in a photography class in highschool, out teacher talked about the grain of the film and compared it to the digital camera we had. Granted it was a few years ago now, but considering how much more fine the grain is to the pixels, makes me think it'll be a very long time before anything digital could compare to a well maintained film. If there were more people working projection like those people who visit this site, if there wasn't so many manager-run-booths, and projectors run by popcorn jockys there wouldn't be any need to change things. It breaks my heart when I go to another theater and see the print all scratched to hell, and I think to myself "this is why digital will work".  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 12-16-2004 03:37 PM                    Ok, but why does he say "blue" and not "colored" though? Are they always blue, if so, why? Or is blue just the most easily noticeable? I'm guessing probably the latter given blue's shorter wavelength, but that's just a guess.  |  IP: Logged Christian Volpi Master Film Handler Posts: 349 From: Arlington, NE Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-16-2004 03:41 PM                        Couldn't have said it better myself, Jannette. I read some where that projectionist used to be called artists because what we do is litterally an optical illusion. Where's the art in digital? We are artists that are proud of what we do. There is a reason why we come to this site, so that we can continually learn how to be the best showman in the industry. Don't let digital take away our pride.  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 12-16-2004 05:05 PM                     Sorry... it's going to happen wheather we like it or not. fjn Local 294 Ret.  |  IP: Logged Matt Manalis Film Handler Posts: 27 From: Yamba, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-16-2004 05:43 PM                        Christian is right we are all so proud of what we do and get better every day learning new things and putting on the best show we can is the art of the industry when DLP comes on we will be standing next to the projector praying that the OS doesn't crash. thats if they let us in to the projection box after DLP come in. the manager will sack us all cause we are not needed well so they reackon....  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 12-16-2004 05:51 PM                     Anything that is not maintained falls apart. Why wouldn´t staff be necessary with dlp as it has been with film.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-16-2004 07:04 PM                     quote: Mattias Ohlson Why wouldn´t staff be necessary with dlp as it has been with film? Some of the folks promoting video projection are implying staff won't be necessary. They want to throw out that payroll savings, job cuts angle to sweeten the Return On Investment picture. Lots of narrow-minded MBAs absolutely love high tech things and also love to cut jobs. Easiest way to fake a good looking quarterly jump in earnings. Still, just like a lot of other schemes, the math doesn't add up right. Just today, there was a news report about a 2nd generation of Honda's walking and waving robot. The company spokespeople, in usual overly optimistic corporate spin, make claims about how this robotic technology will in short order replace lots of human jobs and "save money" (i.e. make a shitload in bonuses for a company's CEO and big dividends for the board of directors). Honda doesn't mention how its current and highly limited robot costs upwards of $200,000 per year to lease, just for one. And the price isn't coming down anytime soon. Anyway, the Honda thing is just an analogy to show how the perceived financial benefits of video projection for theaters just doesn't wash at all. The video projector is 7 to 10 times more expensive than a 35mm projector. And it will take more than just some minimum wage person pushing a single button to keep it running. For the same cost of one video projection setup, and its required technical personnel, you could probably have several 35mm/70mm units along with decently paid and qualified projectionists to keep them going. Here's something for the video projection people to consider: how about coming up with a video projector that doesn't cost anymore than a film projector, shows as good an image as a film projector and isn't anymore complicated to maintain than a film projector? If they can manage those things then we'll see a pretty rapid switch from film projection to video. But for now, while video projection remains an overpriced step backward in quality for the theaters, most 'plexes are going to be better off sticking with the film thing.  |  IP: Logged

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