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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » 70 vs. DC starring Larry Myres (Page 12)

 
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Author Topic: 70 vs. DC starring Larry Myres
Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 02-02-2006 05:04 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The other thing that comes up from this debate is, why don't a small group of people on this site get together and form a project team with the specific goal of re-inventing 5-perf 70mm.(I can think of at least 6 people who could participate, including Mr. Myers!)
That sounds a great idea and I would certainly support.

As for the Imax issue, I understand that here in the UK the 5 Imax Theatres that have updated to DMR Upgrades are now finding only small print runs are being made available and in most cases just one print made available, leaving some Theatres waiting months to secure a print and (if) we see Imax MPX Installations in the UK, what the chances then.

Mind you I think by the time MPX arrives in the UK, most Exhibitors would no longer want to invest in this format due to the high operation costs as we see in Germany, only 4 out of 13 Imax Theatres remain open.

A Cinema/Theatre with a Large screen would justified a 5/70mm, either with DTS or Audio Hard drive, sadly the 6 Track Mag tracks would be costly these times, But the Mag (in my view) Audio on 70mm was at it's best!.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-02-2006 05:56 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Larry Myers
Again since with film pixel size varies with film speed. It is possible to actually get better detail, or resolution if you will, with an ASA 1 film in a 35mm camera then with an ASA 1000 film in a 8X10 camera. It a mix and match kind of thing.
Comparing a 35mm negative with an ASA of only 1 versus a giant view camera format sporting 1000 ASA is quite an apples to oranges argument. And that gets back to the complaints of mine and others about your inferrence that there is no real benefits of 70mm and that 35mm is good enough.

Compare the two different film formats against each other using the same modern film stock and same speed rating. 5/70 will beat the crap out of 4/35 every single time.

And even if someone would want to shoot a view camera image using 1000 speed film (um, what would even be the point?), that large chrome would still hold quite a lot more image detail than any video camera ever made could record. The only way the view camera image would fail is if the photographer's setup was crap and he didn't know how to use his equipment properly.

Most photographers who do large format still photography tend to use much slower speed films (not anything near 1000 ASA) with extremely dense emulsions to get the absolute maximum of image detail and color fidelity possible.

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Larry Shaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Boston, MA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 02-02-2006 07:08 PM      Profile for Larry Shaw   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Shaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two of the reasons I prefer the 570 concept over IMAX/870/1070 is it is a WIdescreEN (as different from most people's idea of TV as possible) and it physically fits in cinema structures (one doesn't need a entirely new/different shape section of building).

And I think whether or not the word "film" is part of the name is unimportant (except to us geeks); as long as the word is attractive and exciting to average ticket buyers!

Larry Shaw

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 02-03-2006 02:16 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..then MGM tricks us on the marquee of "Ben-Hur" with "filmed in CAMERA 65"

(little did we know that Camera 65 was that slightly squeezed 1.25/1 to get 2.77/1 on the screen..later to be Ultra Panavision 70)

-Monte

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Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted 02-03-2006 02:11 PM      Profile for Thomas Jonsson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For Ben Wales. On your photo it looks like that DP 70 of yours
has a separate sound reader under the projector head. Is that
the case, or is it something else? No matter what, I guess you
donīt use the original base? Do you have a photo of your set up,
or can you describe it?

Thomas

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 02-03-2006 03:23 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So someone has spotted my Profile Picture as a odd projector!.

Well it was a door from a DP70 resting on a Westrex 5000 35/70mm Projector and is not part of the Westrex outfit.

The door belongs to a complete DP70 setup I have at home and the Westrex 5000 is used for mobile shows.

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Thomas Jonsson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Bromolla, Sweden
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted 02-04-2006 04:33 AM      Profile for Thomas Jonsson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Ben. Yes, it looked a little odd. Can you run 70mm
on your DP 70īs?

Thomas

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

- posted 02-04-2006 08:38 AM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry Shaw said:

quote:
it physically fits in cinema structures (one doesn't need a entirely new/different shape section of building).

And I think whether or not the word "film" is part of the name is unimportant (except to us geeks); as long as the word is attractive and exciting to average ticket buyers!
Larry, I second all that; BTW I should say that my views are influenced by negative perceptions of film being "old" which I've come across here in Ireland...an instance of generalisation perhaps. Glad to hear that's not the perception in the US, etc. and long may it be so.

[As an aside, I'll be at a seminar in Dublin soon on "The Impact of Digital Cinema" in which I intend to strongly make the case for developing and enhancing film side by side with digital]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 02-05-2006 03:42 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry, Brian, et all... Now that you have realized your dream how will you carry it out? I say its just a dream... a good one but one that will unfortunately stay a dream.....

Dream on boys!

Mark

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

- posted 02-06-2006 09:40 AM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, sounds like you're just the man to carry this forward! [Big Grin]

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Jeremy Sefton-Parke
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Broken Hill NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

- posted 02-06-2006 03:18 PM      Profile for Jeremy Sefton-Parke   Author's Homepage   Email Jeremy Sefton-Parke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would take a wish at a Blarney Stone to convince the major film studios to film in 5/65 and release in 5/70. The bottom line is always the budget. Everyone on this forum knows full and well the impact of a properly projected 5/70 film on the audience. When "L of A" was re-released in Australia I saw it at the Cremorne Orpheum. The audience, many of whom had never seen a 70mm film, were very impressed.

Bring back 3-strip Cinerama and Kinopanorama [John Steven Lasher has tried on several occasions, but politics and, worse still, lack of proper funding have prevented his launching any large-scale projects].

If Hollywood is a "dream factory", it is not one in 5/70 or 3-strip. Jeremy.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-06-2006 03:30 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder how much more it costs to give a 4/35 film the IMAX DMR treatment and blown up to 15/70 versus doing a regular 4/35 to 5/70 blowup. The difference is probably fairly huge -especially when you consider the entire film has to be scanned and digitally processed for the DMR method.

Also, what is the output resolution for DMR? 4K? More? Less?

To shoot an entire 2 hour movie in 65mm will add between $500,000 and $1 million to the budget. That's fairly small when the average major release costs $100 million to produce and tens of millions more to market. Yet 65mm origination would have that very expensive product looking great and holding up well against future film and video formats decades from now.

Us stupid Americans just don't seem very interested in the concept of "long term investment."

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 02-06-2006 03:31 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I am back. I really don't want to get back to what system is better, 5perf 70mm vs 35 anamorphic. I just wanted to point out that you got to look at the whole system to find out what system might be better. A more or less mix and match issue that does exist. It's all in a point of view. I notice in the IMAX camera manual, that instructions are given to police the area of soda cans, cups, butts, half eaten donuts and any other background litter. It points out that all this stuff might not show up on typical 35mm but will cause an expensive reshoot with IMAX. I also read a story in the shooting of How The West Was Won. All the modern buttons had to be replaced on the set costumes because of the higher quality detail with the larger scale of the three cameras. So besides a easier fit of getting cameras, film, processing and release prints, 35mm also means a somewhat easier pre and mid production. Kinda a fact of life.

[ 02-07-2006, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-07-2006 12:09 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't buy the argument 5/65mm or any other large format origination process will complicate things.

Crews today have much more sophisticated tools to use in building sets, making costumes and doing other stuff to decorate a set. Add to that all the tools visual effects people, editors and other tech types are able to use in post production.

You could shoot a swash-buckling pirate epic on the open water. It wouldn't wreck the shot if you have a jet contrail plow across the sky. Something like that can be removed pretty easily in post.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 02-07-2006 08:01 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
It's really doesn't matter if you buy something or not since your not in the market. The director along with the production management are the ones who buy. So right now it's easier to use 35mm and let the film stocks control how much quality you may want. That way, if someone leaves a half eaten donut on the window ledge, it doesn't mean a reshoot.

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