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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: D Cinema in trouble?
Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 03-22-2007 02:49 AM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ultimately the success or failure of a feature depends on the market.

Thinker movies, like a lot of the indies out there don't do well in markets dominated by idiots who want to marvel at the pretty people on their screen...A plot is a terribly hard thing to follow!

The theaters that do well with anything create the awareness.
There are signs up all around down-town San Francisco for things I've never hard of on the tops of lamp posts.
And you know what? I'm sure the Metreon is doing just fine.

Put some grass-roots effort behind a movie that isn't generating enough exposure, little guys can some times split the advertising cost with the studio as well.

If an ounce of the blood, sweat, and tears being spent on D-Cinema was spent instead on showmanship the theater would be worth going to and marveling over the magic of the FILMS again.

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-22-2007 04:29 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FILM RULES!

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 03-23-2007 03:46 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
The owner gave me a small business lesson when I mentioned to him on a sight upgrade to the equipment in the booth that I thought we could use, but more of a desired item than a needed item.

He mentioned that whatever we do to improve needs to increase his gate sales, but being such a tivial thing,then it's not worth wasting the capital money. It has to be something big to make the exspenditures worth while.

I would agree with the concept behind this statement.

However, how one quantifies the benefit to be had from a particular improvement greatly affects the cost vs. benefit determination.

For example, it's easy to quantify something like adding a person to the concession stand during busy times. If, by adding a third person to the stand, and you make 50% more sales than without that person, now you can subtract that person's cost for that time period and come up with the net effect in sales. The icing on the cake is that you probably have happier customers because they didn't have to wait as long to get their popcorn and drink.

But now, apply that same logic to the carpeting in the lobby. It's getting a little worn out and it's not looking the best, and probably should be replaced. Will replacing it have a direct impact on sales? No. It will have an indirect impact on sales due to the overall experience by the customer. But how do you quantify that indirect impact? It's very difficult, even though most reasonable people would probably agree that the carpeting should be replaced.

Applying that logic to something like D-Cinema, how many customers are going to come to Theater A because they have D-Cinema, vs. Theater B that does not?

One would hope that just having D-Cinema equipment isn't the only thing that Theater A can hang their hat on, there are probably some benefits that they can use to their advantage:
  • It's a marketing buzzword that can help to build interest
  • If the theater had any issues with jump and weave, those should be gone. Don't underestimate the impact this has on the customer. Home theaters have gotten people used to the idea that the image doesn't have to bounce around on the screen, and a lot of detail can be lost by that little dance that film likes to do.
  • There are titles/events/programs that are now available to Theater A that are not to Theater B. An entrepreneurial theater can do a lot to draw audiences and create revenue streams that weren't previously possible/practical
  • etc.
D-Cinema won't make or break a theater, but any theater that flat out dismisses the technology is deluding themselves of what the future looks like. Unless their presentations are spot-on perfect at all times, there are benefits to be had for the customer and that should reflect in a residual increase in box office sales. It can't be alone, though. The rest of the experience has to be up to par, and some marketing needs to be done (D-Cinema or not) to attract customers on a regular basis.
If D-Cinema allows a theater to provide a better presentation, to work more effectively, and/or to bring additional revenue in the form of new features, services, ad opportunities, et al. it should be given more than a passing consideration and dismissal.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-23-2007 04:59 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Conversley, I would disagree with the "lesson" taught to Monte. Spending money on something does not necessarily have to show up as an increase in revenue. It all depends. The money spent may also translate into not losing business.

For instance...theatre A spends money on a nice digital sound system while theatre B does not. Theatre A's attendance may or may not go up but theatre B's may go down as the perceived quality at that theatre is less than it should be. You can starve your business to death.

Take it to the stupid extreme. Do you not buy say paperclips because they won't bring in additional patrons even though they help with the paperwork?

There are things that need to be done to maintain the existing customer base, to run a business efficiently that just won't map over to increased ticket sales but are just as vital to the long-term health of the business (any business, not just theatres).

It is one of the big problems movie theatres have with the current business sense...there is no perceived income for money spent on the actual showing of the movie. The theatre retains only a small portion of the ticket sale and it VERY hard to translate money spent on showing the movie (so long as it runs) to increased ticket (and hopefully per-capita concession sales).

At what point is a theatre being thrifty and efficent with their money and at what point are they costing themselves business by being cheap?

Film projection does not have to have that extra movement as mentioned by the post above...digital should not really have that big an edge there. The image quality should really be about 2X the current digital technolgy for Flat films and go beyond that for Scope and 70mm. If film is not, why not? However in order to maintain that quality it has to be perceived that there is business value in showing the movie itself...then exhibitors would demand superior print quality (don't skip the step printing stage when creating the Inter-Neg)...there really is a big difference between different film projection equipment out there...enough difference that customers will notice without having to be able to say why. The exhibitor really needs to show movies like that is where they make all their money (and in truth it is where they make their money...without the movie, nobody is going to come in the door to buy the goodies).

While I too believe the future of theatres is a digital medium...I don't think that what is out in 2007 is what we should settle for...it is the second step. Finacially it is a stupid move though. You can achieve all of the benefits of alternative content without the big DCinema investment and committment. You can also have the substantially lower cost and higher quality of film projection.

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Matt Fields
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 545
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 03-24-2007 01:03 AM      Profile for Matt Fields   Email Matt Fields   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I often find myself spending money on things that I know will not improve ticket sales (new carpet for example), but will keep the theatre in good condition, in order to avoid competition coming into town.

If you don't keep your place up to date, eventually someone else will come in.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 03-24-2007 08:44 AM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
There are things that need to be done to maintain the existing customer base, to run a business efficiently that just won't map over to increased ticket sales but are just as vital to the long-term health of the business (any business, not just theatres).

It is one of the big problems movie theatres have with the current business sense...there is no perceived income for money spent on the actual showing of the movie. The theatre retains only a small portion of the ticket sale and it VERY hard to translate money spent on showing the movie (so long as it runs) to increased ticket (and hopefully per-capita concession sales).

About a year ago, I was talking with one of the theaters that I work with about digital sound systems and the like, and the conversation travelled to the use of curtains. I said that I thought it would be very cool to see curtains across the screen before the show, and have them open when the movie began. His immediate question was "How many more sales would I get if I did that?" Unless he could see a direct correllation between ticket sales and the purchase, he couldn't justify it.

Perhaps that's why I don't run a theater, as I wouldn't be profitable at doing so. To me, things like the curtain spread, digital sound trailers, the talks before the show, those are all what makes the presentation fun and enjoyable for the audience. Maybe not every customer would appreciate them to the degree that I would, but like a fine restaurant that creates an atmosphere that reflects the owner's tastes and ambitions for the place, I think a theater should be more than a customer assembly line.

I see D-Cinema as a way to simplify the operations of a theater (I don't know for sure if it actually does), create additional opportunities for content (the Opera showings, for example, not that I get into that sort of thing), and maybe even additional revenue opportunities through advertising, meeting simulcasts (Microsoft just held one of these at some Regal Cinemas in Illinois), etc.

If there's a business case out there that makes sense, and it sounds like there is, it's foolish for theaters to dismiss it out of hand. It's gotta be all about the showmanship, and anything that adds to that goal has to be worth something.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-24-2007 06:19 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, just showed a case in point on the curtain issue. Curtains are associated with class operations...you could probably map incresed ticket sales associtated with curtains if you did the study over a long term. It isn't something that has marquee value to have an immediate impact but long-term, customer perception would be that the theatre that has the superior experience will do better in any circumstance as compared to the theatre with the inferior experience.

Those theatres that I've worked that have/had curtains...when they break for a period of time...patrons almost always ask what happened to them. I can only translate that into that add to the theatre experience and are one of the factors when one chooses a theatre.

Like so many things...making one nice thing will not cover up many evils but doing as many things right as possible will add up to an overall superior result.

Curtains belong in theatres, not rolling stock type ads or even slide show types. While the money is inticing, it ultimately will take away from ticket sales. The closer theatres make the movie going experience like the home experience, the less reason people will have to go to them.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-24-2007 06:33 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think there's definitely a corollary comparison in how theaters operate to that of restaurants. How does a given multiplex rate compared to various categories of restaurants? Right now, I think many movie theaters fall into the "fast food" category. Not nearly enough are the "fine dining" variety.

In restaurants, the difference between "fast food" and "fine dining" isn't always in the food either. Usually there's a notable difference. But the biggest differences are often found in the customer environment. The same is true for movie theaters. Curtains in front of the screen and other classy touches can go a long way to creating a finer environment.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 03-24-2007 10:26 PM      Profile for Ron Curran   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Curran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This and other threads have discussed the shortcomings of 35mm film.

Not the camera stocks. Kodak’s Vision series and Fuji’s newest releases are better than ever.

Unfortunately, nobody on this forum has the power to improve the situation.

With computer power so cheap and getting faster by the minute, why not scan at 4K as standard? Many labs are capable of this. It is an extremely competitive business internationally. Could a lab win oders by offering 4K exclusively at no extra cost? Is high speed printing really such a money saver while the number of prints is reducing due to digital files?

Even simple items like making all release prints constant height anamorphic for better screen illumination seem to be impossible.

Would it be too hard to make CS-perf Super 35 to increase the filmed area? Techs could modify the hardware quickly. Alternatively, anamorphic lenses have improved greatly in the last 50 years, so is it physically impossible to design models that are even better?

Are good film techs so busy putting theatres right that they don’t have to advertise? If so, why does presentation remain such a problem?

It is depressing that solutions are not a consideration just because digital will eventually be the answer.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-25-2007 06:32 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately, producing CS-1870 perforated film again on a wide scale would involve millions of dollars in retooling perforators, and the image area increase would not be that significant compared to KS-1870 perfs.

I do think that 4K scanning, rendering, and output will become more common as costs decrease, and the image quality improvement will be obvious, especially if the printing duplicate negatives are output directly from the 4K files. Digital output to a master positive is faster and less costly, but continous contact printing of a short pitch master positive to short pitch duplicate negatives does compromise sharpness and steadiness.

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Chris Parry
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Richmond BC Canada
Registered: Feb 2007


 - posted 03-26-2007 02:20 PM      Profile for Chris Parry   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Parry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My grandfather was a self-made, started-out-with-twenty-bucks, richer-than-rich kinda guy, and he used to say, any time someone complained about an expense not bringing in an immediate sales increase, "Did you see a Coca-Cola billboard today?"

The person complaining would usually reply yes, to which my grandfather would reply, "Did you stop and buy a Coke when you saw it?"

The answer would inevitably be no, and my grandfather would reply, "So are they wasting their money on that billboard, or do you think they see it as a longer term investment?"

Replacing carpet, or upgrading equipment, or streamlining an operation is a cost with no immediate benefit, but a substantial long term benefit. And any company that doesn't view those as being important will fail - or at the very least, struggle.

Wal-Mart was built on long term thinking - they'll lose money on products when they first open a store, effectively driving competitors out of the market, and allowing them to ramp up prices when they're the only gig in town.

Putting new chairs and carpet in a theater won't bring many people to your theater in and of itself, but when the competition DOESN'T replace their old chairs and carpet...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-26-2007 04:16 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the "loss leader" marketing strategy of Wal-Mart is a bit different from that of movie theaters.

Any movie theater should go the extra mile of providing a movie going environment that borders on opulence to do two things: provide something the viewer is not going to get at home and to build a positive customer relationship.

If the customer feels like he is visiting a theater worthy of hosting a premiere he'll feel like coming back to that specific theater to watch movies he thinks should be seen on a big screen.

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 03-26-2007 10:05 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ron Curran
Unfortunately, nobody on this forum has the power to improve the situation.


umm wow what a thread, so much common sense and facts in one place. Personally I think we can make a difference, not any one of us has the power, but if all 4055 of us had a unified aproach I think we would be able to make a difference. I would never suggest that it would be easy however.

[ 03-27-2007, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 03-26-2007 11:20 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
I think the "loss leader" marketing strategy of Wal-Mart is a bit different from that of movie theaters.

(to drift off-topic on this subject above:) There was an extinct circuit called Excellence Theatres that believed (or, at least tried,) in following success with another form of business - and they tried to follow Wal-mart's idea in operation and success,but it didnt work out.

They went through the 'heartland' of the northern central part of the country in remodeling their theatres and recent purchases to make them look better than they were, which indeed was a good thing to happen with many of them in trying to bring back the magic in their business, but something happened and this didn't work out as well to eventually for them to go under and be soaked up by Carmike Cinemas.

A theatre company needs to find their own nitch in their form of market and stay with it - even if they do try digital and really concentrate in promoting this medium in as well as make this the showcase house that this medium is presented in.

Good luck to them all ...

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-27-2007 12:25 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ahh, Excellence. I barely remember it but I do remember seeing the 'Esseness' (or was it 'EssAness'?) sign before they rebranded to Excellence.

Not to hard to figure out what happened-they went to far in debt, couldn't make they're payments. Bank owned more of the company than the 'owners' did so Carmike bought the debt and thus bought the company.

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