|
|
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
|
|
Author
|
Topic: What 2k digital projector?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
|
posted 04-28-2009 10:39 PM
Don't worry too much about the color wheel.
We over here are just overly sensitive to some issues. Extrangely, we are quite oblivious to others when we have no choice ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Color wheel is a "technology" used on cheaper projectors so they don't have to use 3 DLP chips and, thus, can be made for cheaper. For some people, when they move their eyes very fast while looking at the image, they can briefly perceive color "rainbows" in the image. The faster the color wheel and the newer the projector, the lesser this effect is noticed by fewer people.
In practice, it's perfectly fine. The alternatives either don't exist or are far more expensive or have other drawbacks.
There are plenty of full hd (1080p) projectors capable of decent blu-ray reproduction and similar quality to 2K for small-ish theaters.
i.e. this Mitsubishi FL6900U doesn't use a color wheel
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/products/projectors/FL6900U.html
could give your a full HD picture at good light levels (12fl) on a 5x3m screen for about $10.000
The thing is that they are not really all that designed for heavy use in theater. Lamps last some 2-4000 hours and cost around $500. But they also don't usually come with a lens that allows for long throw (i.e. they have to be placed only at 14m or closer).
There are other lenses available for it, but they are like $2000.
If you really wanted top quality, you would factor that this projector would probably degrade after about 5-6 years of theater use (hopefully, if it lasts that long). But in 5 or 6 years, I'm sure you would be able to find even better projectors for cheaper to replace it with.
There are slightly cheaper projectors for even smaller screens, like Optoma TX1080 (uses the latest types of color wheels) for around $4000 is also able to do full HD at good light levels on aprox. 5x3m screens from distances of around 10m with the standard lens. Lamp would burn at around 2-3000 hours, for a replacement at around $400.
http://www.optomausa.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=396
Let us know the aprox. screen size you are thinking about.
Distributors in Europe won't allow you to get blu-ray copies until the blu-ray has been released to the home market, of course, but perhaps that's not a problem for you.
You could get a server setup to convert from Dcinema packages to this projector if you get some distributor to give you film packages that are not encrypted. Of course, all major movies, specially americans, would not give you one of those. But you may be able to get some independent ones.
If you want to buy a "real" DCI 2K projector, ask your supplier first if it is fully DCI compliant. If it is not, get a written promise of how much it will cost to upgrade to it.
If you are hoping to show major "first run" movies with it, perhaps you won't be able to in the future, as many movie studios at some point are likely to start to refuse delivering DCI packages (hard drives) to theaters with equipment that is not 100% DCI compliant. If they are willing to send you blu-ray discs, then you are fine with any projector.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005
|
posted 04-29-2009 03:52 AM
Ok Catalin do you really have the say US $80,000 dollars plus for the projector, and the additional money for the sound and speakers? acoustics? What about the money for the seats? fire exits? sprinklers and fire fighting gear?
How much of the ticket price ($2) will go to the distributor, 75% ($1.50) will the percentage go down as the weeks progress? How many weeks do they expect you to run the film on a no share basis. ie one screen one film only. These issues affect us, but may be different for you and your situation.
Cinema over here is a small margin business. The money in the west is made out of candy and soft drinks, The film really just draws the people to your venue. What will you be selling for the real profit in your venture?
Here in Australia we use e cinema as an alternitive to 35mm Panasonic 5100 is a common ecinema choice (I think this is the model John was talking about above). Its the one we have at our cinemas (all screens have both 35mm and video). We get no complants from our us$12 paying customers when we use the ecinema gear.
It is only 720p but can fill 600" screens. Most video projectors are limited to about 300".
If your screen is only say 11 x 20ft wide or smaller perhaps a cheap 1080p Epson 3ccd 3000 would do for around $us 2000.
Perhaps you should talk to the distributors, censors, and local authorities/fire regulators and share your experiences on this forum with us. We dont really understand your countries laws, regulations and traditions.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Catalin Braescu
Film Handler
Posts: 21
From: Cairo / Egypt
Registered: Mar 2009
|
posted 04-29-2009 05:18 AM
Demetris:
> The only one you should consider would be this Sanyo PDG-DHT100L if you can
> afford almost 17K Euro
Fortunately there is always the US market as a cheaper supply alternative: B&H offers it for $17,000 + lens
> I believe I have a contact for a film distributor there.
I'll never say no to a good contact :-)
Cameron:
> Ok Catalin do you really have the say us$80,000 dollars plus for the projector,
Nope, so far from it. Even if we're wildly successful I can't imagine ever paying that much even for a 300-seats auditorium. It just isn't financially viable.
> and the aditional money for the sound and speakers?
We're not trying to replicate the best cinema experience geared towards audiophiles. What we're trying to do is offer the Egyptian audience a good image with relatively good sound (but loud) at the price point they are wiling to pay.
> What about the money for the seats?
For the first theater the seats will be non-foldable, PVC covered. We think we can make it at about $40 per seat (that would be about $3,000 for a 75-seats auditorium).
> fire exits?
The fire exit(s) will be a secondary door going to the same lobby. I don't see it as a significant expense. Perhaps I don't understand the question? Please let me know.
> sprinklers and fire fighting gear
That's the job of the building owner *BUT* we'll also add our own. That's less than $2,000 per auditorium (obviously local prices here are below what you guys encounter in Oz, US or Europe).
> How much of the ticket price $2 will go to the distributer, 75% or $1.50?
To paraphrase Rhett Butler: "Frankly, my dear, we have no idea". Well, not yet. But if other theaters can do it within this price, with their moronic business practices (see below for an explanation), then we can do it too.
> What sort of seat are you thinking of using?
We'll have a BUDGET and a PREMIUM version of our cinema theaters.
The Budget theaters will be quite barebone: non-folding chairs covered with PVC (velour is easily scratchable and stainable and harder to clean FAST), not much money on decorations, up to $2 per ticket (actually a bit less, 10 Egyptian Pounds mean about $1.77). We assume most or all our Budget theaters will be in 1-auditorium only versions. Our plan is to be able to start such under 100-seats with less than $20,000 and in less than 1 month from signing a lease. It's targeted at poor(er) neighborhoods. Sort of mini-McDonald's meets Ford T: highly standardized, cheap, fast, clean, safe bathroom, fast service.
Our first theater will most likely be a budget one.
The Premium theaters will be McDonald's meets Hard Rock Cafe: highly standardized, full of cinema memorabilia, clean, safe bathroom, plenty of choices, fast service. We'll have folding chars covered with PVC (velour is easily scratchable and stainable and harder to clean FAST), at least 4 screens. Our plan is to be able to start such theater with 4 screens and up to a total of 600 seats under 45 days and under $140,000. There is no chance in hell we'll have these money ourselves therefore we'll need to work out the bank dilemma here and strike a deal with the projector manufacturer (which should be doable within reasonable limits). Up to $3.5 per ticket.
Now, I assume it has some entertaining value to explain a bit the environment in Egypt and some of our choices in our plans.
First of all, just to make a few things clear, I am talking about Egypt but I am Romanian; my name is Catalin (Braescu) but despite what many assume I am a male, Catalin is a male name in my native language / country (the female form would be Catalina like in Italian or Spanish). I'm a movie producer and i've been in Egypt for almost 4 years already.
Most of the screens here sell tickets at 20 or 25 Egyptian Pounds = $3.5 to $4.4, offering velour folding seats. And they operate this way (I'll now describe a multiplex, which is the funniest of all): assuming the theater has 6 screens, all screens start at the same time. This means if customers missed the starting time for 10 minutes, they'll have to wait another 2 hours till they can watch anything.
The cashiers are busy for 15-20 minutes then they have more than 90 minutes of do-nothing chat fiesta (and it's always 1 cashier/screen plus a supervisor). Despite all cashiers having their own POS, cashier No. 2 will never sell you the tickets for film No. 3 which is sold by the colleague sitting next (I have no idea why), therefore it's quite common to have 4 cashiers doing nothing and one cashier dealing with a 10-customers queue.
The entrance in the auditorium area is guarded by several ushers, for the simple reason one usher can't be usually trusted enough to be a honest Cerberus. Moreover, in front of every auditorium entrance there is another usher, who will insist on guiding the customers to their designated seats even if there are 3 tickets sold in a 300-seats auditorium. They expect a tip for such service (this tip is almost mandatory).
The popcorn and soda selling place has usually 4-5 employees while only one or two are doing any work.
Each auditorium has its own projectionist, sitting there during the whole performance. Movies have a 5-7 minutes entracte (mid-time break).
The sound is quite good (as compared with multiplexes I know in Bucharest (RO), Vienna (AT), Paris or Narbonne (FR), many of these theaters are Dolby Digital or THX.
However, the optical side of projection is beyound describing: most of the times they are unfocused enough to make titles / subtitles visibly blurred (add to this the low quality of SHOOTING of Egyptian movies and you'll get a fascinating visual experience... ).
No loyalty cards / membership, no discounts, no nothing. No title or poster for non-Arabic movies are translated. They are also subtitled.
The toilets are usually quite bad (yet not abysmal as in non-cinema places). Most of the time there is no toilet paper and I never count on finding soap, either.
The high admission prices sends away the potential viewers who are not rich enough to afford them (keep in mind that a regular monthly salary in the cities is about 600 Egyptian Pounds, a family living off 2 salaries totaling 900 Egyptian Pounds is quite lucky, and average families have 5+ members; remember the tickets are 20 to 25 Egyptian Pounds each). The lack of translation for titles and posters (plus the difference in alphabet) is definitely intimidating for many potential customers. The subtitling means non-Arabic movies can't be watched by the illiterate even if they have the money (illiteracy or practical illiteracy is still more than 15-20% in the cities). The theaters are placed in high-traffic malls and commercial centers in affluent areas (for obvious reasons).
Now, what we want is to go to the underserved districts with our budget theaters and to the affluent districts with our premium theaters. In our multiplexes we'll start the movies in serial way (i.e., at an similar time between each other), so that customers can always count they don't have to wait forever even if they are late. We won't have numbered seats which will make the tip trips obsolete. We will sell bar coded tickets and the entrance should be based on turnstiles with bar code readers (with one guy to watch them without interfering with the access control itself, which will be self-service). For a budget cinema with only one screen we assume a 3-person shift will be more than enough. We'll pay our stuff about 50% more than equivalent positions at the 2 local incumbents because we want them to value their job, be more active and have an incentive to stay with us more. Yet our payroll per seats will be actually substantially less than that of the competition.
We want to replicate the "McDonald's bathroom experience in the Middle East" = if you are in the Middle East and you need a bathroom, you go to the nearest McDonald's if you want to survive ;-) There might be other places just as clean (small chance, tho), but when in need one doesn't have the time to hunt for clean bathrooms, just goes to the place that's positively safe and clean.
I am writing all these here because I feel your criticism and input has great value, even when you say words I may not like to hear. I am a serial entrepreneur and I know experienced unbiased advice is worth gold.
So... shoot!
| IP: Logged
|
|
Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
|
posted 04-29-2009 06:52 AM
I agree with Demetris that the Sanyo PDG-DHT100L would be an excellent choice, but about twice more expensive as the others. The lamps are around $550 and they last about 2000 hours. Each projector uses two lamps.
The projector itself is more solid than average, with 3 years warranty and expected to last 6-7 years of constant use (25.000 hours of operation). You may need an additional lens, as they are sold separately ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
You can also put two of the cheaper projectors together to obtain the same light levels as a large one for larger screen sizes.
If you use two "cheapish" projectors per screen instead of a single expensive one, you have the advantage that you could buy just one for back-up for all your cinemas and ship it out to whatever screen has a broken one, while the shows can continue with a single projector, but with half the light, which may still be ok until the replacement arrives.
In Spain, it's common to get theaters with 5 or fewer screens to start all the movies at exactly or about the same time, 3 times a day on all but the largest cities. Patrons are more "movie oriented". They don't say: "Let's go to the movies". They say: "Let's go to watch Wolverine". And everybody knows they'll be a screen in the first-run theaters (the majority) showing Wolverine at around 6, 8:15 and 10:30 (depending on each market, this changes a bit). You then check for the exact time in case the movie is extra long or something.
This would be the schedule for your average 7 screen multiplex in a 850.000 city which has around 40 screens total over here:
http://cinesa.es/cines/cines2.aspx?id=741
Tickets at around 5€-7€. Once a week, on a slow day, usually wednesday, all theaters lower prices a bit to say 3.50€-5€.
I feel that making sure you can get enough (interesting) films to show may be your first priority. Hope you are sure you can find distributors that would serve your area and that you can get non-dci-encrypted cinema content (i.e. blu-rays or tapes).
Then you can use these types of projectors.
Otherwise, it's $50.000 and above for each screen, plus lamps $700-$1500 for 800-1700 hours of use. Plus necessary stuff like servers (dci players) etc.
Probably not economically viable. Factor maintenance costs, electricity, etc.
You better sell a lot of expensive popcorn
[ 04-29-2009, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Julio Roberto ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
|
posted 04-29-2009 10:19 PM
I think before you worry about technical stuff, find who is willing to give you films, in what format(s) and for how much. Then do the numbers and see what you can afford equipment wise.
You may get lucky obtaining decent content from Bollywood. They are doing HD lately, have tons of nice films, and some of their movies not touching religious issues may appeal to your audiences. Obviously not in arabic, mostly hindi and tamil, and I don't think the subtitling would be neither very enticing nor cheap, but it's an idea.
Does Egypt get a lot of hindi films on TV, etc?
Also, there is an arabic film festival in Spain, in case it's of any use to you.
http://www.amalfestival.com/
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic