my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Regal to go 100% Sony 4K? (Page 7)

This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8

Author Topic: Regal to go 100% Sony 4K? Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 05-20-2009 02:28 PM                     Also back on topic. A lot of people have talked about how stupid AMC and Regal are to make this choice. However, AMC has had several complexes running 100% Sony 4K for a while now. If the image quality sucked or they were having lots of problems I don't think they would have made the deal. I also assume that these complexes have 2-4 pretty large screens (as most AMCs built in the last decade do) so I guess the Sony projectors manage to illuminate them. As another post said, Sony claims that using the anamorphic lens (I assume this allows use of the whole imager) for scope, the SRX-220 can light a 70 foot wide scope screen to 14 fl. There aren't many screens out there bigger than that and for the few that do exist, two projectors could be used. A screen over 70 feet will also be a 500+ seat auditorium so if the location justifies that much capacity then it certainly does enough business to pay the extra electric and bulb replacement costs.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2009 02:53 PM                        Even if we accept that the Sony 4K unit has good picture quality and reliability (I have no idea, as I haven't seen it), it's still a dumb move, for the following reasons: - Both chains announced that they would go with Sony, yet it will be months or years before the DCIP funding is available to begin the installs. What happens if a newer/better/cheaper product is made available in the meantime? - Both chains have committed to installing Sony equipment exclusively; this puts them in a bad position should Sony choose to raise prices on critical parts and/or drop support for these units entirely in the future. It would have been less risky to install equipment from several manufacturers in order to minimize the effect of this sort of situation in the future. - Sony has no real history of involvement in the exhibition business (other than SDDS) and is not likely to be as aware of what type of products and support exhibitors expect as Christie, Dolby, and other manufacturers with a strong existing relationship with the theatre side of the business. This may or may not prove to be an issue, but it was a risky move. The only positive result from this that I can see is that the equipment purchase price was low and AMC and Regal will be able to use the "4K!" marketing element in markets where they compete with 2K DLP houses. This was a bad move for AMC and Regal (and could sink them both, if nothing changes), but a good move for the rest of the industry, for reasons that I indicated earlier.  |  IP: Logged Julio Roberto Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 938 From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain Registered: Oct 2008 posted 05-20-2009 02:55 PM                    Not to mention that a number of those screens will be made silver high-gain to allow for 3D, allowing for even brighter 2D images (if the theater geometry is not too wide, etc). I'm not saying it's great to obtain high light levels on a high gain screen, just that high gain screens are basically a necessity for 3D and, since they must be used anyway, they do count to provide a brighter image in 2D shows if done right.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2009 03:33 PM                     quote: Julio Roberto I'd really like to see your Laserdisc and Vinyl collection someday, Mark. Monte Fullmer has my Laser Disk Collection... The majority of the vinyl collection went to the dump many many years ago. I only kept my Refrence Recordings and Direct to Disk LP's. You should see my Nipkow Disk TV camera nand receiver . Re: The 4K thingy above... I don't see anything good comming from this Scott. If Cinemark also goes Sony then the othing I seen is the eventual demise of DLP all together. Also, Sony has the money to make it all happen. DCIP only need sign on the dotted line!!! Mark  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-20-2009 04:01 PM                        It's amusing that everyone naturally assumes that because the big chains have made some strategically-incorrect business decisions in the past (over-building, SDDS), that they must continue to do so now because they can't help themselves and/or because they are just morons. Puh-leez! You honestly don't think that AMC and Regal, after the SDDS debacle, have covered all those issues (supply, support, spares, etc.) in detail with Sony and are comfortable with Sony's commitment to 4K? You actually think AMC and Regal, while talking to Sony about 4K, just swept SDDS under the rug out of fear of hurting Sony's corporate feelings? It's just as likely that Sony had to acknowledge their SDDS failings to AMC and Regal and provide concrete (contractual) assurances that 4K will not be a repeat of SDDS. If TI now suddenly discontinues DLP, will that make TI as bad as Sony? How about if NEC and Barco discontinue their D-Cinema offerings?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2009 06:14 PM                        Mark -- the win that I see here is that the Sony move has confused the market enough that no one else will buy anything for a while. This just bought everyone some time to wait and see what happens and also for new products and technologies to emerge, and for prices to drop on existing products. D-cinema equipment is not going to get any worse or more expensive over time. It may not be so good for dealers in the short term, but I can't imagine things working out any better for independents and small chains. David--I don't really consider AMC and Regal to be particularly well managed companies (have you attended a screening at either one lately?). I have no doubt that Sony just offered them a sweetheart deal and they took it. That does not mean that this move was the best long-term decision for their shareholders.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-20-2009 07:11 PM                        I guess you don't read my reviews. The Regal 15 here in Eugene (opened 2 years ago) does a very good job most of the time. It's rare for there to be a serious presentation problem. I go there all the time and post in the Reviews forum, including comments about presentation, whether it was good or bad, along with anything else I feel the need to complain about. Most of the time I have no meaningful complaints. I have no doubt that you (Scott) or Brad or Mark or Steve or Gordon or any number of other professionals here could find things to criticize and mock and that's fine. Just don't assume that every location in a particular chain is crap because some of them are. Sometimes people here like to bitch-slap Carmike. Yet Bobby Henderson has said repeatedly that the Carmike in Lawton is well-run. Whether Sony offered them a sweetheart deal isn't really the issue. Sony is hopefully required as part of the deal to provide adequate service and support for however many years AMC and Regal need the 4K system to be viable. If that's not part of the deal, then yeah, the decision could end up backfiring if Sony pulls up stakes. Presumably there are assurances in place to make that outcome unlikely for the exhibitors. As far as waiting for something better/cheaper, we all know that's how it is with digital electronics. At what point do AMC and Regal make a decision? Never? I mean there's always something better on the horizon, so by that logic they shouldn't do this at all, ever.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2009 07:29 PM                     quote: Scott Norwood Mark -- the win that I see here is that the Sony move has confused the market enough that no one else will buy anything for a while. Oh, Absolutely Scott. I agree 100%. The market has already been suffering from a wait to see if the price drops/wait to see if the equipment is reliable sort of a thing since day one. And equipment is now super reliable AND Prices have dropped somewhat enticing some to install digital but not really enough to sustain things. Those that do install digital have done either just 3-D installs or a few 2-D's sprinkled here and there, again not enough to support DLP in the long run. I already know of a couple of locations that are going to wait it out for at least a while before going down either route. CBG has also never supported Sony because of Wayne Anderson's attitude but now that the Waynster is gone they will now obviously have to have some serious sit down talks with Sony. While I think 2K has it's place it's also going to have to become cost competitive with 4K on the scale that AMC and Regal are doing (about 58 grand a screen total cost) and I don't think that particuluar cost competitiveness price area can support DLP or the server manufacturers in the long run. As far as how well run the two companies are... I can say that AMC here ni SLC does one of the best film projected jobs of presentation. Any company as large as these are going to have great locations and bad locations just like McDonalds and Burger King do. Mark  |  IP: Logged Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 05-20-2009 07:43 PM                     Isn't this whole thing really about the fact that Sony can finance the conversion when DCIP could not get bank financing done? Also, I don't understand why DLP has to go away if the US market is mostly Sony. What about the rest of the world? Don't they sell DLP office/home projectors also? Are the cinema DLP chips vastly different from the consumer/small business market?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-20-2009 10:32 PM                     I don't know how the break down on entire world count of commercial movie theater screens, but it wouldn't surprise me if the United States had a pretty big percentage. It's likely the US has a lopsided majority of the world's d-cinema equipped theater screens. Because of the high cost per screen I think world-wide proliferation of d-cinema will be a slow process. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone here believes it would be the death of DLP entirely if the 2K d-cinema business disappeared. The real problem is DLP technology overall, with all niche industries included, isn't making enough money for Texas Instruments for TI to keep supporting it. Even without the threat of Sony's 4K projectors there is still a serious chance TI will discontinue the manufacturing of DLP chips. The 3-chip 2K DLP arrays used in professional d-cinema projectors are very expensive compared to the smaller DLP chips sold in consumer electronics products and projectors for computers. Most office product projectors using DLP feature relatively low resolutions like 800 X 600 or 1024 X 768. I get computing catalogs all the time and haven't seen any product listings for computer projectors using the same 2048 X 1080 part used in professional d-cinema projectors. Likewise LCOS stuff is hard to find. Sony sells a Bravia branded "SXRD" projector that can be used for home theater or computer display use. It has full HD resolution. But it costs well over $3000. I think a lot of customers will opt to buy a flat panel TV instead.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-20-2009 10:55 PM                     quote: Matt Fields Also, I don't understand why DLP has to go away if the US market is mostly Sony. What about the rest of the world? Don't they sell DLP office/home projectors also? Are the cinema DLP chips vastly different from the consumer/small business market? You're forgetting that selling office projectors doesn't mean selling enough of them to make a profit. People in the office market choose any of the many cheaper options. And a person running a home projector would be even less likely than a business to do DLP. In both areas (business and home), DLP projectors lose out to regular televisions, monitors, and far cheaper competing projectors.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 05-21-2009 07:22 AM                     In terms of the use of DLP/LCoS outside of DCI, the University I work for has just installed a Sony SXRD projector in a classroom at full HD for the teaching of graphics related subjects - to get the best resolution and colour reproduction. And, of course, our cinema on campus has a Panasonic DW-10000 DLP at fullHD resolution for pre-show and e-cinema - used for showing "Slumdog Millionaire" which, in Australia, was primarily on digital and not 35mm.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-21-2009 09:11 AM                        quote: Scott Norwood David--I don't really consider AMC and Regal to be particularly well managed companies (have you attended a screening at either one lately?). Sorry, dude, but a movie theatre is as good as the Management team that runs it. I take particular offense to this generalized stereotyping. I have been to many AMC and Regals that had top notch presentations. While many people have legit complaints about the companies in general, I save my complaints about specific locations for when I visit each individual theatre. Thank you, and have a nice day.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-21-2009 03:05 PM                        Dennis, it is true that the local management makes a theater as good or bad as it can be, but let's not forget moronic policies that prevent the theater from functioning at its very best that come straight from corporate. For one, Regal demands that you chop and ID frame off of the head and tail of each reel. If the theater manager does not comply, they get raped in the eye socket. Also, both AMC and Regal put WAAAAAY TOO MANY trailers on the front of their movies. There isn't much that the managers can do to correct these and many other similar issues.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2009 03:30 PM                        What Joe said. Regal and AMC make it difficult for good managers to be good managers, from what I have seen. I agree that a good manager (and staff) is essential to a quality operation. My point was more that Regal and AMC essentially provide a generic experience, with relatively high prices, obnoxious advertising, and generally indifferent presentation (yes, there are some exceptions). Neither has done much to improve the state of the industry or to distinguish itself from its competitors (I'm told that AMC boasts about having "invented" cupholders). It is obvious to me that both organizations are more interested in short-term profits (slim as they may be) and not in the long-term health of the exhibition industry.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.