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Topic: Digital: Scope inside Flat?

Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 10-20-2010 07:23 PM

quote: Eric Hooper
Yes, the fire exit is blocked and "walled over" with the plywood door. You can see the exit sign illuminated above the plywood door. There is another fire exit on the other side of the booth...but still.

I think a call to local code enforcement/fire marshal is warranted.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-21-2010 03:12 AM

quote: Eric Hooper
Even though they have side masking curtains, when they did show scope films and opened them up sideways, it still wasn't as wide as some other screens may be

I'm then throwing a bet that this 5 screen place never had true scope masking tabs in the first place - maybe 2.20:1 at the most.
Thus, they have no other option BUT to 'band-aid' the scope image on the screen.

Plus, with the discussion of boarded up exit doors, I would then take that the place was constructed during the "shoebox and plywood construction era" were the procedure of showing true 2.35:1 scope imagery was definitely not important.

-Monte

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Eric Hooper
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 532
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-21-2010 01:28 PM

Monte..it is a twin theatre. Down the street the same company operates a 6-plex, which has also gone "all digital". The 6-plex had top masking, (not top and bottom movable masking), and it will be interesting to see if they've done the same kind of installation there. (I haven't been there yet.)

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-21-2010 02:07 PM

A call to the local public safety people is in order. In this area, even if you have a lot more exits than legally required it takes inspections by all departments concerned and if they give permission, any indication that the door might be an exit must be removed (painted over will not do) signage especially must be totally gone. They prefer that the panic bar be removed too. Permission to close an emergency exit is rarely given.

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Elise Brandt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Kuusankoski, FIN/ Kouvola, Finland
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 10-22-2010 12:51 AM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Most format errors on film can be corrected easily by even the most dense booth monkey....how hard is it to change a lens and aperture? I can do it on single lens machines in under 15 seconds, less with a turret.

How long does it take to correct a format error in DLP? and does it force you to restart the show from the beginning or can it be done "on the fly"?

Come on. I have sat through a film where the projectionist forgot to do the switch to a scope movie after flat trailers, the picture was off (plus not in focus) the whole way through. It's perfectly possible to screw it up on film, if not easier since it can't be automatic.

That error in D-cinema can be corrected by pushing a single button, on the fly, no need to restart anything. And it takes the whole five seconds to work.

I get what you're saying but it irritates me to no end that you would deliberately, again and again, do the basically same post.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-22-2010 04:42 AM

quote: Elise Brandt
I have sat through a film where the projectionist forgot to do the switch to a scope movie after flat trailers, the picture was off (plus not in focus) the whole way through

(..and you didn't bounce out of your seat, head to the lobby and raise hell with the management or similar that the movie wasn't right ?? ... REALLY ...!)

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
does it force you to restart the show from the beginning or can it be done "on the fly"?

If the format was wrong as per resolution, you couldn't even watch the presentation due to the colors are all wacked out in this, then the macro can be simply changed on the fly to get the right resolution.

But, you build a playlist for a 3D movie and the 2D lens cues are used, you're not going to watch that movie ..period.... for you have the same bad color results.

But, we won't talk about SONY units ....

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 10-22-2010 12:16 PM

quote: Eric Hooper
Wandered into the other auditorium and yep, a scope image inside the flat screen still, with black bars (blank screen) at the top and bottom.

I tend to concur with Demetris' points on page one of the thread, that this seems to be an installation problem where the zoom lenses are either non-automated, or alternatively do not have the range to accomplish the enlargement / reduction required when zooming between 'Scope and Widescreen. The lenses could also have been set at a fixed position.

It's even possible (albeit unlikely) they could be using prime lenses in a bid to save money.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 10-22-2010 01:54 PM

quote: Elise Brandt
Come on. I have sat through a film where the projectionist forgot to do the switch to a scope movie after flat trailers, the picture was off (plus not in focus) the whole way through. It's perfectly possible to screw it up on film, if not easier since it can't be automatic.

That error in D-cinema can be corrected by pushing a single button, on the fly, no need to restart anything. And it takes the whole five seconds to work.

I get what you're saying but it irritates me to no end that you would deliberately, again and again, do the basically same post.

First off, I agree with Monte..why did you sit through a film with such obvious problems? Did you bother to go out to talk to someone to try to get it fixed?

My point is, if you actually read the post rather than just skimming over it, is that MOST film problems CAN be corrected easily. Perhaps SOME D-Cinema errors are the same, but so far MOST of the ones I have heard about require a complete projector restart or server boot, both of which take considerable time. (More time that it takes to swap a lens and aperture anyways.)

I would love to see you go back and paste in quotes of examples of how I am "deliberately, again and again, do(ing) the basically same post."

The thing is if you would open your eyes and mind you would realize that the situation is the same regardless of film or DLP...BOTH have their sets of problems and BOTH will have them happening over and over again.

The main point is that D-Crapema IS NOT the cure-all, low-cost, foolproof solution to film that it was passed off as.

Finally, if my posts irritate you so much, quit reading them..especially if they are in these types of threads.
[Razz]

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-22-2010 01:58 PM

Eric, is the theater I'm thinking you're talking about the same twin that had the parking lot marquee blow down in a storm one or two winters ago and never bothered to replace it? If so, I have never seen a single presentation there that was without some kind of technical problem. I'd be hard pressed to believe it will continue to operate in the distant future.

Oh as for your photo, you have to ensure the width of the photo is 550 pixels or less, and the image smaller than 200kb in file size.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 10-22-2010 02:17 PM

quote: Eric Hooper
A local theatre near me just went "all digital". I just went there for the first time since them installing the digital projectors.

This theatre has (or had) side masking curtains. What they seem to be set up to do is leave the screen masking as FLAT, and then if the movie is in scope, they just project the "letterboxed" scope image inside the flat-masked screen creating a "letterbox" image with the black bars (blank screen) at the tops and bottoms. This of course makes for a very small movie image compared to how they used to open the side curtains and using the whole scope screen with FILM. (You know, how the theatre was built for.) Plus I found the black bars (blank screen) annoying.

Is this the norm now with all digital installations? IMO, this is a huge step backwards.... I can get the same experience on my TV at home...so what's the point anymore?

I noticed this when I watched "Hereafter" the other day in state-of-the-art ETX. While I did notice it at first, it didn;t really bother me after the movie began. I just kind of got used to it.

Another theatre just went digital near by, they have traditional masking, there was no "letterbox" look to it.

Either way, it really does not bother me. It would bother me if a film image was projected this way.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-22-2010 03:35 PM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
How long does it take to correct a format error in DLP? and does it force you to restart the show from the beginning or can it be done "on the fly"? (I think we know the answer for Sony based on the posts above.)

This can also be fixed on the fly in a matter of seconds on most standard DLP setups. Without restarting.

Blame Sony for their own ridiculousness, but don't hold Sony up and claim that it is how D-Cinema operates.

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Tom Mundell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 120
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 10-22-2010 04:10 PM

quote: Tom Petrov

...
I noticed this when I watched "Hereafter" the other day in state-of-the-art ETX.

Whoa, wait, the AMC ETX rooms don't have masking??? I would consider that a huge negative! Seriously, they charge a higher price for these rooms but can't even be bothered to install masking?

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 10-22-2010 04:29 PM

quote: Tom Mundell
Whoa, wait, the AMC ETX rooms don't have masking??? I would consider that a huge negative! Seriously, they charge a higher price for these rooms but can't even be bothered to install masking?

Nope. No masking. But like I said, at first I noticed it, but then it didn't really matter. The edges of the image were so sharp and crisp, I don't think masking would of made sense as the edge of the image was so perfect.

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Eric Hooper
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 532
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-22-2010 09:33 PM

quote: Sean Weitzel
Eric, is the theater I'm thinking you're talking about the same twin that had the parking lot marquee blow down in a storm one or two winters ago and never bothered to replace it?

Yes.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-23-2010 10:23 PM

Masking is not common of in Europe and quite a few D-cinema installations and conversions are installing floating screens with no masking. With the sharp picture edge a D-cinema system looks pretty nice without masking and people get used to the unused screen area.
The situation originally described sounds like someone did a weak installation or the lens was ordered wrong and can't zoom out to fill the screen width for scope. Maybe there's a manual zoom lens and the operator has decided to not bother with it and do wnat's described? When I've encountered this incorrect lens issue (because whoever measured the room screwed up) I've exchanged lenses. Christie and Barco have been cooperative, I think it happens a lot. Here in Canada we've tended to use Christie but Barco is getting popular. The only Sony ones I know of are at AMC and I've never run into any others.
As far as I know there aren't any fixed lenses for D-cinema. Looking at the Barco website all I see are a series of slightly overlapping zoom lenses, each with a bit more zoom than is needed to get from flat size to scope size. The zoom ratio is the same for top (/bottom) or side masking. Same with Christie from what I can find.
Probably the filmists will grab on that to gripe about: D-cinema doesn't have the resolution to need a top quality prime lens? Then again they don't seem to need anything quantifiable to gripe about.
I think what peeves them is that D-cinema doesn't need a "projectionist" and they're headed for a hairnet job.

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