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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: Can SDDS be revived through D-Cinema?
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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008
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posted 01-07-2012 08:49 PM
quote: Bruce Hansen
Why would you want to bring back SDDS. It uses a lossy compression system. Sony's compression system is terrible. It removes the harmonics, which are what give instruments their individual "sound". The homogenized audio it puts out sounds booring and lifeless. The theater digital systems use uncompressed audio.
Even though this started as a SDDS themed thread – the conversation has transformed into something along the lines of ‘wouldn’t it be nice if what 8-channel SDDS delivered could be replicated in D-Cinema application’ in other words the showmanship of the classic the pre-1978 70mm/6-track sound films [i.e, the musicals]. So it’s basically all culminated and concluded around the issues of money, lack of interest: 5.1 sound is fine, why fix it? and filmgoers and exhibitor’s really just don’t care.
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Actually, the studios began this.
When magnetic stereo soundtrack for 35mm (and later with 70mm) came into being, there were actual "Decca Trees" - three mic assembly on location to record live in stereo.
"The Robe" was one of those films actually recorded in three track magnetic stereo.
Back then when stereophonic sound was the "in" thing, the voice track actually followed the character - voice track "panned" across the screen to follow the character(s)
Now, what do we have: all dialog recorded MONO and placed in the center channel with no panning to follow the character(s) and all of the explosions, music and such recorded stereophonically for Left/Right playback .. and the Surround channel was just an extension of the L/R channels...in basic form.
Granted, now surrounds recorded on separate channels, but were then matrixed for the inital Dolby EX and the DTS-ES systems to have a center rear channel-kinda of a backwards approach with this why these two processes faded away quickly.
Some folks just want to go to a theatre just to watch a movie-they don't care what and how sound comes out as long as they can hear(and understand) the sound playback, while there are others who wants an experience in watching a movie-why all of the gazillion channels.
That may be true, but Pixar is one of the few studios where the soundmixers actually pan and place dialog in the left, right and create phantom imaging between the two and the center channel. The soundmix may be dated, but 1995’s ‘Casper’ mix had dialog in all the front channels and in several scenes, placed in the surrounds. Sadly the art of truly creative and innovative mixing is gone, in my opinion.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-07-2012 09:17 PM
Here's by far the biggest problem with movie sound production:
It's all done at the last minute.
Productions at major studios and independents alike have pretty squeezed time schedules. There's only so much time allowed for pre-production, shooting and post-production. But the time element is more squeezed than any other when it comes to making the sound track. If you watch a movie during its opening weekend of release chances are you're going to hear a mix that didn't even exist a month prior to that, or even 2 weeks. The music score, foley effects, other sound effets and ADR are mostly being done in the final weeks leading up to theatrical release.
Now when it comes to a Pixar release the sound mix is generated in a far different manner. All the dialog is recorded before any of the character animation is done. The sound effects bed has to be generated from scratch, so more time is spent doing that. The music score is the only thing that can be generated after the animation is completed. Given some of the music may tie into movie marketing teasers more than a year out from theatrical release progress already has to be made on that front too. Last but not least Pixar takes 2-3 years to make movie. Different teams are working on different movies with overlapping schedules.
Nevertheless, I have heard some movies from time to time track dialog across the L,C,R stage channels and even into the surrounds. Fight Club is a good but not so recent example. Others exist. Not all dialog is rooted into the center channel.
If the audio editors and mixers didn't typically have such horribly demanding time deadlines they might have more latitude to be creative.
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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover
Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 01-07-2012 09:44 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
Tom, quit smoking so much dope and try to keep up. I wasn't talking about premium-type venues like Imax and 3-D and etc. I was talking about your standard everyday-type movie theatre. Of course I know that people will pay for the premium experience...even if it isn't really all that premium, such as the "Liemax" thing. But what people are upset about, apparently, is the prices at garden-variety cinemas. (My feeling is that ticket prices are still not all that high, although concessions passed the ridiculous point long ago.)
You have to relax a bit. You mentioned "premium" experience in your post. Standard 35mm has never been a "premium" experience to begin with. Like THX auditoriums, past 70MM presentations, the emergence of DTS/DD/SDDS...those were premium experiences and right now we have "premium" experiences in IMAX Digital, ETX, AVX....SONY 4K, REAL D is NOT a premium experience...
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-07-2012 10:41 PM
quote: Tom Petrov
Bobby- The 23% who paid $33.1 million for MI-4 in IMAX can't be wrong can they?
That is the public TRYING to tell the theater owners that presentation DOES MATTER. Granted the public is typically brainwashed and ignorant, but the fact remains they are tired of the quality the typical theater produces. As home setups continue to get better and better, the entire exhibition industry is doomed if theater owners don't start putting their best efforts forward. If ATX, RPX, whatever that CinemarkX thing is, etc is the best those theaters can produce, they should do it in EVERY auditorium. (Now of course I don't mean a 60+ foot screen in every auditorium, I mean design each auditorium as if it was the best auditorium in the complex, and put your best-effort sound system in each one, regardless of whether it is awesome or awful in reality.)
DigiMAX has and always will be pathetic in my book. If it floats your boat, then great, but I've been around long enough to know what quality really is.
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