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Author Topic: Article on Light issues with Digital Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 05-28-2011 03:40 PM                     We will still have Z screens being left in place in non Sony booths due to lack of concern!Out of sight ,out of mind because most managers do not want to be bothered! Titles are often moved to different screens at the drop of a hat confusing 2d and 3d even further! What about the spinning disc Master Image wheel?Can it be moved out of place or is it a problem in 2d?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-28-2011 04:31 PM                     quote: Ken Lackner True, a Sony projector can only light up to a certain sized screen, and there is no larger model available as there is with NEC or Barco. There is a limitation on Sony's because the light passes through the imager chips... Hence they are exposed to way more heat than a DLP chip is (it reflects light). The more light you try to pass though the Sony light engine the hotter the imagers will get and eventually they will fail (turn brown). Even the every day Sony projectors green chips will all fail eventually. Green accounts for about 54% of the visible light spectrum and hence the green chip is normally running much hotter than red and blue are. quote: Victor Liorentas What about the spinning disc Master Image wheel?Can it be moved out of place or is it a problem in 2d? Yes! And it can even be automated to do so as long as your projector's down tilt angle is above the height of the Master Image with the wheel lowered all the way down. Lately I have installed quite a few Real-D X-L units and I find the Master Image even with the brand new higher efficiency filter wheel looks murkey compared to the X-L attachment. SOme people criticize the X-L's alignment but it is way far superior to a dual projector 3-D system and can be gotten dead on in the center third of the screen and well with in specs at the outside. I had one that was dead on all the way around... probably more a combination of everything like tilt angle and screen curvature being just right. Mark  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 05-28-2011 04:35 PM                     Mark, I understand the limitations of the Sony display technology, and these components are replaced at regular intervals. I was simply addressing the concern of running 2D content through the 3D lens.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-28-2011 04:37 PM                     Sorry Ken! I now included your quote that I was referring to... Oh, and replacing that chip is pretty expensive "normal maintainance" that has to be done on those Sony's.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2011 06:13 PM                        quote: We will still have Z screens being left in place in non Sony booths due to lack of concern!Out of sight ,out of mind because most managers do not want to be bothered! I simply can't understand this. How is it possible that pictures can look dark and mirky and manager's are not concerned? It's like running flat picture and no one is concerned that the anamorphic lens is not changed out. It's absurd. And if people just keep opting more and more for their home theatres, then exhibitors deserve what they get. They are bitching and moaning about VOD and how that is going to hurt them, well, how about putting a properly lit image on the screen and being "CONCERNED" about it. Guess they are reaping their wet dream about not needing anyone in the booth and to have all run on autopilot.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-28-2011 06:44 PM                     quote: Frank Angel How is it possible that pictures can look dark and mirky and manager's are not concerned? The mentality of the managers at many theaters is "If no one complained, then the show went fine."  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-28-2011 06:49 PM                     ...or, "it's not my job. I'm a manager-not a projectionist." Simply, doing booth work for a manager is below their calibre and they usually don't feel the dollar worth as, "what's it in for me to do more?" Thus, they do little as possible and only the minimum required. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2011 07:50 PM                     As to Sony...when running 2D content you are super-imposing to images and it will NOT be perfect you are going to lower the effective resolution if they are not in perfect alignment over the entire screen. In 3D mode, this is not as much of an issue as each eye is seeing a different image and the slight misalignment is not perceptible as far as the eye is concerned and insignificant compared to the separation of the actual left/right eye images. As I've said, I've seen Morie issues exaggerated when things like a picket fence are on screen. Just correcting the color/light is not good enough it is inferior and not within DCI spec (no visible artifacts allowed). As for Real-D XL...yes, it is easy to get the center 1/3rd but that is not good enough...again resolution is lowered if ANY misalignment is encountered though I agree one will never get a 2-projector system to have their lenses as close together as the XL box BUT they are not the same thing. Real-D XL is putting the SAME image out of both and any mis-alignment comes off of resolution. In a dual projector set up, any misalignment has zero effect on resolution but possible effect on headaches/eye strain if it is substantial. The better correlation is Sony's Real-D lens versus 2-projector...they are both using separate lenses for each eye. You are only going to get near 100% alignment on the Real-D XL on a flat screen...but, as my studies are showing, your light distribution sucks with Silver screens on anything but a curved screen. I've gotten Real-D Z-screens to look pretty decent on curved silver screens now. Now, that said, I have a Real-D XL on a curved screen (R = about 2/3 throw) and while it was a pain to align, the customer is pleased with the results though I can see where the convergence of the two images is less than perfect. Again, it comes off of resolution...it isn't like you are going to see two distinct images on screen. Strong makes a motor kit to motorize either the Z screen or the XL...not too horribly priced either. There is no reason for the 3D stuff to remain in place during a 2D show. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Nathan Tarpley Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Crystal Lake, IL Registered: Sep 2007 posted 05-28-2011 09:10 PM                    LCoS is NOT a transmissive imager, it is reflective, just like DLP. With LCoS, the reflective layer is fixed as opposed to the rotating reflective surfaces of DLP. Light is either allowed pass to the reflective layer or blocked by the grid of twisting liquid crystal cells. It IS true, however, that LCoS cannot sink as much heat as DLP, and has certainly proven to be less reliable, but more so with the blue imager rather than the green. Something that is not talked about enough: There are 8.8 million of these cells in a Sony imager........when are we going to see that many mirrors with DLP? Will 4k DLP and the 1/4 sized mirrors prove to be less reliable as well? Why the continuing delays in delivery? Also, how is 3D to be achieved with a 4k DLP engine? Triple flash? Wouldn't the kind of bandwith required to triple flash 4k be astronomical? Are we in a situation were if an exhibitor wants 3D he or she is locked in to 2k? I'd be very curious to know these answers if anyone has any insight.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-28-2011 09:27 PM                     Note, the triple flash is not done at the server level...all that is required to send in the form of data is just the 4K content. The flashing is done on the formatter boards directly so the bandwidth should not be an issue, persay. Unlike with 2K, 3D was in the design with the 4K systems. To the best of my knowledge, the 4K DLPs are shipping in quantity. The delivery issues is waiting in line behind others, like Carmike that are getting bunches of them. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael McGovern Film Handler Posts: 57 From: New Britain, CT, USA Registered: May 2008 posted 05-29-2011 11:07 PM                    Sadly if you patronize a Regal theater, this isn't a problem that will be resolved anytime soon, if ever. They recently changed their policy back to preferring that minimum wage floor staff run the booth rather than management, and even then only booth techs are given access to do anything with the digital projectors except for bulb and filter changes. Swapping out a 2D and 3D lens is not something that they would ever permit anyone but a tech to do, and given the fact that 2D is all of a sudden outperforming 3D, they've recently had us rotating 2D and 3D versions of the same movie every other show.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-30-2011 01:46 AM                     How hard is it to slide an XL unit out of the way for 2D presentations .. even the "Z" screen can slide out of the way quite easily and a tech doesn't need to do that. This is getting a bit on the silly side on this "lens changing" issue when there really isn't a lens that needs to be changed out in the first place....unless you got TECH35mm  |  IP: Logged Chase Pickett Expert Film Handler Posts: 142 From: Irving, Texas, USA Registered: Nov 2010 posted 05-30-2011 04:35 AM                     Monte, The sony requires a lens change...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-30-2011 08:15 AM                     Monte...the name is deceiving. It is an XL-S (S for Sony) but has no relation to the XL you are thinking of. It looks like: As opposed to the normal Sony 2D appearance: Can you now see why it is an issue to make the switch? They are big, heavy and expensive. So few people seemed to be able to get Anamorphic "Scope" lenses on film aligned properly...what are the odds that the average booth person of today is going to get these bad-boys swapped out perfectly? -Steve  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-30-2011 02:56 PM                     I know, I've seen Techs do this lens changeout/alignment with the Sonys and it's a feat and a half to do this task. For an average booth individual, it would be an overwhelming experience to do this task whereas experienced and trained individuals could prob change/align these units out in their sleep. Thus, when a booth has a twin lens Sony installed, it prob stays there for good. Yet, I've seen 2D presentations shot through a twin lens Sony unit and, to me, the picture looks real good (course, having a silver screen prob helps on the matter as well..), thus I can't see what the whoop is all about of needing to switch out lenses on these Sonys per format. Be kinda hard for bookings to solely book 3D only content in these Sony twin lens houses if presentation is really the issue here in which the public prob don't know the difference anyway. -Monte  |  IP: Logged

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