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Author Topic: First hint at end of 35mm film distribution for Disney
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 07-03-2011 05:54 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark J. Marshall
So what happens to all of those theaters overseas that haven't converted and are nowhere near converting? No more film for them either?
The situation overseas can be completely different than in the US - e.g. most european countries view 'cinema' as a cultural asset and offer funding and other financial support for smaller houses to facilitate digital conversion.
Very often this is not only tax payers money, but also from other financing pools that have been created to support weaker parts of the film industry. e.g. we have film funding that reinvests revenue from successful local movie productions partly in new productions, screenplay development, cinema modernization, etc. That may be in credit or grants
.
Some countries, like in scandinavia, organized countrywide VPF programs with local distributors to support all cinemas. In some countries, a mixture of all these methods can be found.

In short words: At least for the european continent, the situation for most smaller houses is much better than in the US. Although some of the very small houses may still be left out.

- Carsten

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Timothy Eiler
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 126
From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-04-2011 08:43 AM      Profile for Timothy Eiler   Author's Homepage   Email Timothy Eiler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
What (asking a general question here, not directed at Mark...) are the Drive-In's gonna do with this: find ways to do digital or close down and sell their land off?
With Film I can make money for myself and the studios. With digital I lose and the studio makes even more money. When Film eventually disappears the Property up for sale

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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 - posted 07-04-2011 05:50 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So is a theatre stuck with leasing agreements when converting to digital if one has been reading of these units only having a lifespan of 10 years - technically a 'throwaway' unit as with a computer?

If so, it would be best if cinemas keep their 35mm units ... just in case the digital magic becomes a liability to the studios and have to revert back to the medium that has proven itself well for over a hundred years ...

-Monte

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Paul Gordon
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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 - posted 07-04-2011 06:01 PM      Profile for Paul Gordon   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Gordon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital will close down a lot of mom an pop theatres. The owners are probably fine with that if they own the property. In the next couple years you will see many centre town independent theatres sold for condos or what not. I have a feeling in the next decade the total number of cinema screens in North America will drop dramatically, specially if Hollywood keeps pushing crap, an bad 3D. The digital revolution will be an excuse to shut up shop for many small time operators.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Music City
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 - posted 07-04-2011 07:59 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder what stuff Paul and Tim are smokin? Cinedigm has a program that can fit just about every one's needs. They have even come out with a mini monitoring rack so Mom and Pop can collect VPF's. There is even a second run program but I believe they are still nailing the details of that in place. I have a customer that owns a twin that runs some first run and some move over who will be one of their first customers for the mini monitoring rack. Aside from slightly higher lamp costs which can be partially offset by lower power usage and lower labor costs I'm not sure whatchu talkn bout there.

Mark

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Paul Gordon
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 580
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted 07-04-2011 08:43 PM      Profile for Paul Gordon   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Gordon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I wonder what stuff Paul and Tim are smokin?
Probably a big fat joint of BC bud!

All I'm saying is that many small time cinemas that make their living on second run, rep, an art house stuff may be left behind. I know of only a hand full of single screens or art house cinemas that are doing digital in the next year. One is the most successful art house in Canada an even he is keeping the 35mm's for the long term.

In Toronto I believe their is only one single screen arthouse theatre with a 2k and that's because they are a post production house during the day. I may be wrong but I think a lot of cinemas will miss the virtual print deal.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

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From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-04-2011 09:06 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even Cinedign's guy--Fithian, has admitted than "some will have to be left behind." Your mileage will vary. Louis

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

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From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007


 - posted 07-04-2011 09:48 PM      Profile for Mike Frese   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Frese   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Cinedigm has a program that can fit just about every one's needs. They have even come out with a mini monitoring rack so Mom and Pop can collect VPF's.
Is this a new program or the CBG program? If CBG, then it is a done deal and you had to be a CBG by their cut-off.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 07-04-2011 10:15 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even if a theatre manages to qualify for VPFs now, that won't help in a decade or so when the next generation of [dlp] equipment needs to be purchased and installed. Ultimately, this hardware is going to have to be paid for by exhibitors, even if the drug-dealer approach ("first one's free!") works in the short term.

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Frank Angel
Film God

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From: Brooklyn NY USA
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 - posted 07-04-2011 11:09 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Cinedigm has a program that can fit just about every one's needs. They have even come out with a mini monitoring rack so Mom and Pop can collect VPF's.
Some on the Drive-In forum are saying that if you go with Cinedigm and install a digital box on one screen, then they will force you to convert the others to digital within a year. It's bad enough a DI, which almost all are mom and pops, will have it hard enough converting one screen, but if they have more than one, this stink beatle in the yogurt would make it nearly impossible for them. So is this true, and if so, WTF?

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

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From: Bloomington, IN, USA
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 - posted 07-04-2011 11:17 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Even if a theatre manages to qualify for VPFs now, that won't help in a decade or so when the next generation of [digital projection] equipment needs to be purchased and installed.
Scott, I would imagine that the movies of the future will be backwards-compatible, in much the same way that...

...70mm coexisted with 35mm
...Digital sound coexisted with analog
...3D coexists with 2D

In multiplex situations, it's likely that the "premiere" screens would get the upgrade while smaller houses stick with the current technology.

Like 70mm, THX, digital sound, 3D, etc, if it appears that the upgraded houses really do have more earning power, then we'll see a widespread adoption of whatever is the new thing.

But let's not ignore the motives for the current change from analog to digital. It's about reduction of overhead due to printing and shipping of prints. Once the switch to digital occurs, there really won't be a *pressing* need on the part of the studios to go any further.

Certainly, there may be a few high-powered directors who seek technological improvements (higher resolution, increased frame rates, etc) but even if they get their way for a particular film, I don't think it will necessarily result in a *mandatory* industrywide retooling.

Cases in point:

Specially-timed version of "Transformers 3" for brighter 3D projection -- not mandatory.

7.1 sound -- not mandatory

Even George Lucas did not make good on his threats to withhold the new STAR WARS trilogy from theatres that didn't convert to digital.

With that said, now that we *are* on the digital treadmill, technological enhancements are inevitable, and it's likely that we all see this coming. So why not simply plan for it?

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Ian Parfrey
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E
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 - posted 07-05-2011 04:17 AM      Profile for Ian Parfrey   Email Ian Parfrey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the converted ratio of 35 to digital is ONLY 50/50 then Disney is barking at the Fuck-Up Fairies skirt.
This makes no economic sense whatsoever. So Disney are going to throw away the potential income stream from 35mm exhibitors?
Not a hope in Hades. This is classic strike-breakers strategy...send in a big gun, let them threaten all sorts of shit and see which way the land lies.

And since when have the studios dictated to exhibitors what, which and when they have to convert?...and why would any exhibitor even allow any studio to tell them what to install and when.

[sex] them.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 07-05-2011 04:51 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess they are not THAT stupid. Of course they want to speed up conversion by issueing statements like that. After a while, they will reconsider what the actual conversion status is like and then decide what to do from there. Offer more VPFs, other deals, stop 35mm, or, what is more likely, make it less attractive to put more pressure on the houses that have not converted. That is, less prints, bad quality prints, more expensive prints. They'll certainly not just watch it growing slowly into peacful coexistence.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
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 - posted 07-05-2011 06:52 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of the VPF deals that I've heard about are of the sort where one has to convert at least 50% of their screens (in a location) at the onset and have a set time frame for when the remaining within that location must also convert.

The stick in this, however, is that the VPF allotment goes down this fall so if you only convert 50% now, you will have less money to convert the other half next year.

Make no mistake about these VPF deals, it does NOT cover 100% of the conversion cost but it does cover a substantial amount of it (typically 75% +). As such, the exhibitor will have to outlay a substantial amount of cash in order to hold their own (not generate any new revenue for the expense).

Manny, as to what Scott was saying about the second set...it wasn't about some new fangled format...it is about the realistic lifespan of the equipment going in today...it is unlikely that the majority of it will remain reliable and repairable 10+ years later. To drive the point home...non of the equipment that was purchased for DCinema 10-years ago is supported in any fashion. You may find some parts can be had and some parts will cost more than buying new. Even series 1 projectors have a black mark on them in terms of serviceability that is only going to get worse. The first 2K stuff is already starting to have more difficult times obtaining parts in a timely manner.

Certainly, time will tell on all of this. I'm hoping that since the currents stuff is being mass produced (as much as this industry ever mass produces anything), that the support of it will be longer than the stuff that was produced in more limited quantities. However, there are no guarantees.

-Steve

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-05-2011 11:15 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The studios will make 35mm as long as there are "chain" theatres that play 35mm. When it's down to just mom'n'pop 35mm theatres, that's when they will pull the plug. No matter what they say, the truth is they don't care about the small operators OR the income from them. The only exception is when we owe them money -- then they are deeply concerned!

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