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Author Topic: Will series-1 projectors run future movies? Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-03-2011 02:51 PM                       These prices sound pretty high to me. 21,000 Pound Sterling is roughly $42,000 for a Series One. This is just for the projector or including server? I agree with Mark about the NEC and the M is probably too small for your application. The M is now called the model 2210 series two and is essentially the same mechanical bits, right Mark?  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 08-03-2011 03:04 PM                     Sam, I think that's for the projector, server and alternative content interface; AFAIK it's part of a deal on surplus equipment currently being offered in the UK. The offer price for this package is a bit lower than quoted on account of William having to look at a different lens option for his theatre.  |  IP: Logged William F Green Film Handler Posts: 84 From: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Registered: Jun 2005 posted 08-03-2011 03:19 PM                     Yep, that's right it's for the server, projector, cine IPM and is part of the deal Brian is talking about. Without the additional lens cost the Christie 2000-s would be £17,000 and the NEC £15,000. Sam, not too sure if any projector is actually too small for us as we only have an 18ft (matt white) screen but with a long-ish throw, hence the extra lens cost. W.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-03-2011 04:37 PM                     Go with the Christie. You don't really need the GoreBoard upgrade now, you can do the upgrade later if you're really short on money now. The CineIPM should make up for most 'HDCP' needs for alternative content for a while. Unlike in the US or under VPF-contracts, this GoreBoard upgrade is not mandatory in Europe (so far). 3phase shouldn't be so complicated to install. If you limit yourself to single-phase machines just because you hesitate to install a 3phase socket - that is not wise. Get a certified electrician in-house and let him evaluate options and cost. Although 15.000 GBP is a very attractive price for a full operational DCI system - the NEC will turn out very expensive once you have to buy new lamps. The additional lens for the christie won't hold up long against lamp cost for the NC800. Most people with a NC800 seem to regret that decision quickly - search the forum! 21.000 GBP is roughly 24.000€ - that is one third of the price of a new system with similiar parameters/class. Not a bad offer. Check the EFIB/FFIB board issue - if the board can't do full-format triple-flash, you might have to reconsider the lens choice if you want to do 3D (you have to zoom further in on non-triple.flash capable projectors). If you are absolutely sure you don't need 3D, then ignore. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 08-03-2011 06:36 PM                        Upgrading single-phase power to 3-phase can be amazingly expensive. A few years ago when the whole digital cinema thing was just getting started I asked around a bit and was told that I would need 3-phase power for a digital projector. I checked with Sask Power and an electrician and was given a ballpark figure of between $12,000 and $18,000 to get 3-phase power in my theatre. Ultimately I didn't have to get 3-phase power and I'm obviously pretty happy about that.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-03-2011 06:41 PM                       I cannot make an informed opinion on prices outside the USA and Canada, but series one projectors are very difficult to sell here. I've seen them sold for 10 to 15% of new prices. There is nothing even close to a real list price here as there is heavy price competition here.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-03-2011 06:54 PM                     quote: Frank Cox Upgrading single-phase power to 3-phase can be amazingly expensive. Probably due to different power-supply schemes. In most parts of europe every private home has three-phase, so it's usually just a matter of bringing the wires to the intended installation room. Every kitchen in germany has a standard three-phase socket for the stove. 3phase flow-heaters are also quite common. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-03-2011 07:34 PM                        In the States, most commercial work is 3 phase; but not always into every panel. Much complaining later, a new panel was installed in the booth, 3 wires pulled out, 4 smaller wires pulled into the original conduit. Done: cost of panel plus 400 dollars. louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-03-2011 09:29 PM                     A couple of clarifications. The NC800C does NOT use a "Cermax" lamp...it uses an Ushio 1200-watt xenon (I have the part number around here, somewhere). It IS an OEM lamp to NEC so you have to buy it through NEC and they only sell them in lots of four! Some companies are buying the 4 pack and then sell them individually but at a premium for breaking the 4-pack. Neither the CP2000S or the NC800C are HDCP compliant. The CineIPM is NOT HDCP compliant so forget BluRays with HDMI or any other HDCP only source unless you don't mind using an HDFury to HD component. If you get the Glue-Cable upgrade from Christie and order the Type-5 board (no trade in rebate), then you will have an HDCP compliant projector (but you can't use the CineIPM with HDCP sources still...just connect the HDCP device straight to the DVI ports on the Christie. I am not aware what the HDCP options are for the NC800C...my guess is that they are limited or they are similar to what can be had for other series 1 projectors. The NC800 is a hybrid projector as it was an AV projector (IS8) that became the baby DCinema projector for NEC...so it is a little bit of an oddity. The CP2000M is HDCP compliant. With the GlueCable upgrade, it should do for you everything that a CP2210 would do other than CineLinkII TLS and it will never take an IMB. However, from the theatre side of the port, the image will be indistinguishable from a series 2.  |  IP: Logged William F Green Film Handler Posts: 84 From: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Registered: Jun 2005 posted 08-04-2011 06:21 AM                     Carsten, there must be some mis-understanding about 3-phase. I have never seen ANY domestic installation with 3-phase power in the UK. But, maybe it's different in Germany. Most buildings here (apart from those intended for industrial use) do NOT have 3-phase power and to bring 3-phase in from the street is likely to cost in the thousands or tens of thousands (and there is a waiting list of months & months for this type of work). Having said all the above I suppose the only way to settle the cost of 3-phase is to get a quote from an electrician. Has anybody ever used a rotary phase converter on a digital projector I wonder?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-04-2011 04:53 PM                     On these projectors, 3phase is needed for the lamp/rectifier. That is, 3kW in your case. Sure you can get converters for that rating. Wether it is advisable for a lamp rectifier - I don't know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-phase_electric_power I have personal experience with farm installations in Ireland which run single-phase. Which is a real threat... I have never seen a single-phase installation in germany, not even domestic. Even our 60 year old cinema had 3phase from the start. Didn't think 3phase is so scarce in the UK. How can it be when the Christie 2000 S was the defacto standard for these DCN/AAM installs? Maybe you should call DCN/AAM or Christie for possible options. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-05-2011 03:16 AM                     quote: William F Green Most buildings here (apart from those intended for industrial use) do NOT have 3-phase power and to bring 3-phase in from the street is likely to cost in the thousands or tens of thousands (and there is a waiting list of months & months for this type of work). Three phase domestic installations are unusual, but not unknown. If you want more than a certain number of Amps, I think it used to be 100 A, you had to have three phase. This would mean all but the smallest industrial and commercial buildings would have it. Is would seem odd that a cinema, even a small one, would not. Something that I have seen in the past, is all three phases taken into a building, but only one, and the neutral of course, connected to anything, which makes it quicker and easier to provide a three phase supply in the future if required. I've never seen this in a domestic installation, but I have seen it more than once in small shops. There are several types of three phase converters, both static and rotary, but the cheap static ones will not be suitable to run anything other than motors, and each will only work over a very limited power range. All these things consist of is an auto transformer to step up 230 V to 400 V, or whatever the local Voltage happens to be, and a network of capacitors which combined with the inductance of the motor windings provides enough of a phase shift to give the third phase. However, the three phases will not be at 120 degrees to each other, this system cannot provide a neutral, and the incoming neutral cannot be used with the output, and since one phase will be at, or close to, earth potential, another will be at 400 V from earth, rather than the 230 V in a proper three phase supply. One place that I worked in some years ago had one of these things driving a small lathe, and I wouldn't recommend it, for anything other than a motor of the specified power rating, and operating under constant load. Under certain conditions the performance can be improved by connecting a large pilot motor, not driving anything, in addition to the required load. Even with this, these converters are only suitable for running other motors, they won't work at all without a motor connected, and they work very badly when the main load is something other than a motor, of something close to the specified power rating. A rotary converter, or a three phase inverter, might be able to operate a projector, but I wouldn't try it without approval from the manufacturer. In the UK all three phases almost certainly run past your building, if not actually into it, unless you're in some very remote area, so the cost of getting proper three phase might not actually be that great compared to the total cost of a digital cinema installation, and it's certainly the only way that I'd want to do it.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-05-2011 09:56 PM                     Steve... I have two CP2000 SB with type 4 interface boards that are hdcp compliant... There is an ~800.00 credit given on that board. I don't see any need for the type 5 board. 800 bucks is 800 bucks in this case x 3.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-06-2011 05:08 AM                     Mark, I agree with the Type-4 board...the Type 5 board has been for VPF deals...type 5 is identical to the type 4 except it has the "security enclosure." However, he was mentioning an older projector than the SB so he would not have a type 4 it would be a type 2 or 3. Christie's plan is basically send you a board of like type...just with the security enclosure. And they would give you a credit for that (all they are doing is wrapping the older boards with the enclosure and sending them back out. Given the above option...I would skip sending the non type 4 board back and just get a new type-5 (all that is available now as a replacement part) and get HDCP compliance (as well as DCI compliance). And that was essentially the question...the ability to play BluRays...which any player issued in 2011 or beyond will no longer do HD component. Thus the desire to have an older series 1 projector become HDCP compliant too. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-06-2011 03:28 PM                     Steve... Agreed! Also, re: The three phase convertor... I would only reccomend the rotary type for this purpose as the winding generating the third phase leg is substantial enough to maintain the proper voltage on that third leg, they are typically 95% efficient. Static convertors generally have a lower voltage on that third leg becvause of power loss through the phase shifting components that are generating the third leg. They are typically 80% of the input voltage which in the case of a motor is no big deal but in the case of a rectifier may cause unwanted artifacts on the DC.  |  IP: Logged

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