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Topic: Help with my movie...

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2011 10:49 AM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
...in which we'll prob be seeing prints being circulated like it was in the olden days: a market demand where large cities got the prints first, then were trickled down to the smaller towns...used and abused by then.

Which is how it is in the art film business right now (though I take exception to the abuse part, big cities are just as capable of abusing film). A lot of us are very concerned about the "end of film" because there is no feasible way currently for us to afford switching to digital and because it seems unlikely the major studios, who have been eliminating prints of classics will be converting their archives to DCI digital anytime soon.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-08-2011 04:25 PM

But, isn't the 'art film' industry still geared to film releases - being that the demand for DCI content in this area isn't as demanding.

Plus, indie filmmakers - mainly in Europe and Asia - and their respective releasing companies be more prone to keep film as their standard media for releases, or is that market also gearing up for the DCI changeover?

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2011 06:27 PM

Right now, at least to the art distribs I've talked to, film is going to be around for awhile. But, if as speculated here, the labs start closing and the price of film skyrockets, the art film world will be under assault from all sides.

Many indies are distributing on DVD or BluRay (with the option of things like HDCAM). The Major Studio art arms (Fox Searchlight, Sony Pictures Classics, Focus) do DCI and film, but as minor players in the overall studio hierarchy, will end up doing what their parent companies make them do.

And then there is the whole rep world. If we can't get WB, etc to strike prints now, and are a really pushing DVD, I doubt they are going to spend the money to convert their back catalogs to DCI, thus shrinking the rep market even more.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2011 08:18 PM

Martin...

I think what you'll see is a lot of the smaller and indie studios going to Blu-Ray. They can be almost indistinguishable from a 2K DCP as long as the scan is done well. Anyone can author a Blu-Ray disk and even doing a decent scan of the negative... if what you are going to run is even shot on film in the first place is less than a few one off 35mm prints. So even when filum does go away it isn't going to present much of a problem for any entity. For 8 grand or even less depending on what software anyone can buy a DCP creator software package and make your own KDM protected DCP for distribution. Hence... no real worry there. You just need the equipment for your theater... What some of my customers have done is to forgo buying that new car for a couple more years... One took out a low interest loan through the VA.

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-08-2011 08:49 PM

quote: Greg Anderson
In the 1980s, the trend towards multiplexes hurt the smaller venues.

I don't really agree with this. The multiplex trend helped us, because it caused more prints to be struck, which meant we could get films faster. Back in the early 80s, I would suggest to our booker "We could play that brand new movie this week!" and he would laugh at my hilarious joke. Now, we play 10 to 15 new movies on the break every year (and would play more if not for the lengthy play-time requirements by the studios).

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-08-2011 09:39 PM

I'm generalizing, of course. But I am inclined to ask: How far away to the nearest, competing 6-or-more-plex?

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Jenn Jennings
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Peabody, MA
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 08-09-2011 06:03 AM

@Mark, I know that there are A LOT of blu-ray player failures out there and I would think that exhibitors (and filmmakers) would want more reliability than that. I can't tell you how many times lonny has had to deal with blu-ray player issues. I don't feel that is the best solution.
It has been interesting to read the responses. I am hearing from folks that have mixed opinions of what exactly is going on. The research I have done thus far indicates that film is going away between the end of 2012-2013. That some exhibitors are eligible for the VPF deals and many are not. That when the "have nots" look into going with a 3rd party digital option that it HAS to be DCI compliant or they will not get distribution from the major studios. What is your opinion about this? It is even legal? And why is it that cinedigm makes you sign a non disclosure? What are they hiding? Ive heard the statements " there are some back door deals going on" and that intrigues me.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-09-2011 08:51 AM

Mark:
As was hashed out in this thread
http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002436#000000
lots of people here have a strong aversion to considering DVD/BluRay a professional format, though it may be forced upon us. Some of the really low level (and I don't mean that as an insult) filmmakers may be ok with their work being exhibited in a consumer format, but I can't believe it would be acceptable to the upper levels.

Which leads to the problem of alternatives to DCI. Currently there are several alternative e-cinema all with their own propriatary standards. Some have deals with the mini-majors (Emerging for example) and some are creating their own markets which just adds even more havoc to the indie world.

Digital may be wonderful for the multi-plex world, but it is going to be hell for those of us on the margins.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 08-09-2011 11:39 AM

quote: Jenn Jennings
That when the "have nots" look into going with a 3rd party digital option that it HAS to be DCI compliant or they will not get distribution from the major studios. What is your opinion about this? It is even legal?

What would possibly be illegal about requiring the equipment used to play digital cinema content conform to the specs of digital cinema? Are you suggesting that if I make a movie, I am legally obligated to make a version of it compatible with the oddball projector some theater owner decided to buy?

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 08-09-2011 12:20 PM

quote: Jenn Jennings
I know that there are A LOT of blu-ray player failures out there and I would think that exhibitors (and filmmakers) would want more reliability than that. I can't tell you how many times lonny has had to deal with blu-ray player issues. I don't feel that is the best solution.

That's an issue of using consumer-grade equipment in a commercial environment. Anyone using a $100 Blu-ray player in such a setting should expect that there will be issues from time to time.

If the theatrical market does embrace Blu-ray as a medium, commercial-grade equipment will become more available, but it's not going to be at a $100 price point. At the very least, something on the higher end of the spectrum should be considered, such as the Oppo unit, or something from Denon or similar. Not only should you get better reliability, but you'll probably get better performance (tighter adherence to color specs, etc.).

I would bet that if NATO or at least a semi-large chain were to go to Oppo (a company known for its engineering and appealing to a niche base) and specify some needs in regards to on-screen displays, operational parameters, etc., they'd probably produce a custom firmware to better serve the commercial market.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-09-2011 02:13 PM

Martin...That just adds another system you'd have to buy. Don't forget that any D-Cinema projector can accept DVI and mostcan do dual DVI.

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-09-2011 08:45 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
do dual DVI.

...like BARCO's ...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-10-2011 01:55 AM

Scott, for what it's worth, we have tons of Panasonic blu-ray players in use and they have been more bulletproof than the high end (expensive) units. In fact, I don't think we have had a single failure/skip/refuse-to-read situation come up yet.

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William F Green
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 08-10-2011 11:17 AM

Martin you said

quote: Martin McCaffery
lots of people here have a strong aversion to considering DVD/BluRay a professional format, though it may be forced upon us.

This is true - and I was one of them! If you see the thread "will series 1 projectors play new movies" you will see that we are really struggling with the justification to spend tens of thousands of pounds on even 'old' DCI equipment.
We have experimented with BluRay & DVD which is something I was initially against, based on some sort of vague notion of 'principle'. However, I have to say I was wrong as we have been able to successfully screen a lot of stuff on BluRay and DVD over the last few months rather than 35mm. In fact we ask for DVD/BD of material rather than 35mm when we get the chance as it saves film-handling work.

The customers really don't notice (ok, I should say 'most' of the customers) and the type of 'arty' programme we run really does not suffer even if we have to wait a few extra weeks for the BluRay's or DVD's. Incidentally nowadays upscaling is good enough to make the DVD's almost as good on-screen as BluRay's. We burn our own trailers to DVD and I must admit I am still surprised at how well the DVD/BD screenings have gone.

Only once did somebody notice it was DVD and that was a particularly poorly compressed DVD supplied by the distributor - and even then they certainly were not complaining, just noticing.

The only real issue we have (again it's more of a point of principle for me) is that if we abandon 35mm altogether and don't go DCI that we will lose our ability to screen stuff close to release date - but I dunno, I still think the jury's out as far as we are concerned.

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Jen Pelto
Film Handler

Posts: 30
From: Muskegon, MI, USA
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 08-13-2011 10:23 AM

Hey, Jenn...I'm from the Harbor Theater in Muskegon. I think we've met before! [Smile]

My husband Brendan and I own a 2-screen art theater. We feel like in the years to come (or possibly near future), we will be very affected by the "switchover to digital". The film depot in Detroit is closing soon, so all of our prints are going to be coming from further away, costing us more money to ship those heavy prints.

We're talking with film studios about how switching to digital will give us the upper hand over our competition. Some claim it will, and beg us to go digital, enticing us with promises of films that would have been unobtainable to us before. Some smaller studios, like IFC, have remained totally resistant in their willingness to convert, and threatened that if we went digital now, they would never work with us again. (I would have to find out who said that exactly, I 'think' it was a rep at IFC. Seems pretty harsh, right?!)

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