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Author Topic: Film era fades to black
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-29-2011 06:21 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Brad said. (in principle; I know nothing of GDC servers)

Also, having an extra disk to keep on the shelf (even if possible) does _not_ help if the OS disk fails during a show. Admittedly, this is unlikely (disks tend to fail at power-up), but it would kill the show if it happened.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 09-29-2011 08:00 AM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Going digital

Homer's historic theater makes high-tech switch

After 55 years, thousands of miles of 35mm film and a projector that faithfully clicked out images at the rate of 24 frames per second, last Friday at 6 p.m. with the first showing of "The Help," the Homer Theatre joined 15,000 other North American movie theaters in a technological revolution that's changing the industry.

Homer's single-screen theater went digital.

Last Monday, to commemorate the end of an era, the theater passed out strips of movie film. From Tuesday to Thursday the theater shut down as a crew from Encore Technical pulled out the old 1980s era Ballantine-Strong film projector and installed an NEC NC200C digital projector. Workers put up a new silver screen — yes, it's actually silver — and Encore technicians Scott Eales and Jason Blackmon made the final adjustments. Thursday afternoon the theater did a test run, including 3-D trailers.

Compared to film, digital movies look sharp and bright, with no scratches and breaks. "Better than 35 mm" was the standard digital had to meet to get acceptance in the industry, said Homer Theatre owner Jamie Sutton.

And in 3-D? Wearing special glasses, watching 3-D can be like a roller-coaster ride. Fasten your seat belts, pilgrims. A trailer for next summer's Spiderman movie, for example, shows Spidey climbing skyscrapers and then swinging down into vast urban canyons, the ground rushing up. Urp.

Being able to show 3-D movies is one of the reasons the Homer Theatre converted to digital. Other reasons include:

• Being able to show any form of digital entertainment, including "Live from the Met" operas and special television broadcasts.

"Going digital opens up so many more opportunities," said theater programming manager Colleen Carroll.

• Getting movies sooner;

• Lower shipping costs. A 35mm film is seven or eight reels that weighs about 50 pounds and costs studios $2,000 a print. At the test run last Thursday, operations manager Robin Daugherty held up a digital "print" that is about the size of an old VHS tape and costs about $100.

"They're just shipping up a hard drive in a cigar box," Sutton said.

The 465-gigabyte hard drive comes encrypted, with a special electronic key sent to theaters to play it. About 35 digital prints can be downloaded on the theater's server.

But the biggest reason to go digital is technological change. By 2014, major studios will no longer ship 35mm to exhibitors, Sutton said.

Sutton made the decision to convert last spring after attending a National Association of Theater Owners meeting.

"It became apparent that digital had arrived, and the technologies that had been somewhat experimental had settled in and there was an industry standard on which you could rely," he said.

Including the cost of a new screen necessary for 3-D, Sutton invested $113,000 in converting to digital. Major studios want theaters to convert to digital. To help exhibitors finance the conversion, theaters that convert get paid a VPF, or virtual print fee. Studios and filmmakers that produce digital prints pay the VPF that goes back to theaters. Sutton said he'll get about $200 a week, paid quarterly. Some financing comes through third-party vendors that process the VPF. Sutton financed the Homer Theatre's conversion through a bank loan.

The chance to see new releases sooner helped push Sutton to make the conversion. Some Homer residents don't mind waiting, Sutton said.

"I resist that notion," he said. "In the extent that Homer seeks to engage in that national cultural dialogue, it would be better if we could show the stuff currently. That's my deal. That's the ambition."

One change Homer Theatre customers also will see is Preflix, a 15-minute show before the movie starts. Made up of national movie content, it includes spaces that could be used for local advertising, including nonprofit spots. Movie trailers follow, either trailers attached to that night's film or "Trail Mix," a selection of upcoming films.

The advertising is an experiment, Sutton said.

"We're going to try that out for six months and see if it works," he said.

Businesses can learn about the new advertising program and the digital conversion when the Homer Theatre holds the October Homer Chamber of Commerce mixer from 5 to 7 p.m. Oct. 20. The theater offers free popcorn and soda, a presentation about digital cinema and a 3-D film showing.

The Homer premiere of 3-D — at least with the latest technology — is 8 p.m. Friday, with the showing of Werner Herzog's film about ancient paintings in a cave in France, "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" for the Eighth Annual Documentary Film Festival (see story, page X). There's an irony to that, Sutton said.

"We are using mankind's most modern and advanced technological art form to show a movie about mankind's oldest art from, this 32,000-year-old drawings in these caves in France," Sutton said. "It's kind of a fascinating juxtaposition, and kind of a fun way to introduce 3-D."

Theatres converts

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Ian Parfrey
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1049
From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 09-30-2011 01:08 AM      Profile for Ian Parfrey   Email Ian Parfrey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
That must be an exaggeration, or else you have the worst luck in history, or maybe really really bad equipment.
Mike.

I have no want or reason or time to exaggerate.

Bad luck? Maybe.

Really really bad equipment? I wouldn't call the Atlab eC2 server or the Panasonic PT-DZ6710 U/UL bad equipment.

Isolated occurrences? No. Calls to other locations using other equipment have related very similar issues as mine.

So my point, in relation to Frank's earlier post about others spruiking the benefits of digital over film based systems, is that digital is NOT the panacea to all exhibitions ills and is indeed bringing forth it's own, more severe issues when things go 'tits-up'.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-30-2011 02:14 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well at least it is only a personal experience with equipment type not really considered pro-grade DCI cinema. If DCI gear would be as unstable as your's in general, we would long be back to 35mm.

- Carsten

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-30-2011 02:29 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Please note this is the D-cinema forum, not the "E-cinema" forum. Anything not capable of playing DCPs is an unfair comparison.

Still though, one would think the E-cinema equipment would be more reliable due to not having the security bs to deal with. I am convinced the biggest issue with reliability in D-cinema is all of that security the studios require to be built into the systems.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-30-2011 09:39 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Re: The Homer...

I've installed equipment in theaters just like The Homer many many times. It has always improved the picture and sound and many of the patrons have immediately noticed and made positive comments. Digital no doubt will once and for all eliminate improper film handling and lousy projection standards that existed in many small town theaters. I am seeing less and less interest in small theaters wanting to install 3-D and one location even wants to sell it's 3-D gear. Overall I believe digital will help the small exhibitor as it offers an entire new realm that never before existed through the projector's dvi inputs. Most of my customers have already put the dvi inputs to good use. I will add that every single location I have installed in has said good riddens to film or if they've kept the film projector have never used it again. Every theater owner has also agreed that digital has made their life easier.

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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 09-30-2011 10:34 AM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not really sure if this comment helps the topic on hand, but I find it really amazing that the Landmark chain hasn't made much of decision to go all digital, at all. Their cash-cow location - Bethesda, Maryland has never done the conversion and it seems like they really don't plan on it. E Street has a Sony 4K unit, but again, it's a largely film based theater.

The Avalon theater here in DC is also largely 35mm. a few movies have been shown digitally (Metropolis, The Best and the Brightest, select films during FilmFest DC. to name a few), although not through a dedicated DLP/LCoS system.

You can also count on the AFI/Silver to present films in 35mm form, even though they have DLP units on all three screens, if a film is released in film form, you can be pretty much assured that at the Silver - you'll see it in 35mm (although on the few rare occassions, if they can't obtain a 35mm print they've been known to project DVD's and blurays)

even though AMC converted the Uptown theater, they are completely failing in not booking alternate programming, let alone properly projecting a 1.85 film - AMC in other words can be best described in how they are dealing with the Uptown: "epic fail"

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 09-30-2011 10:37 AM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Overall I believe digital will help the small exhibitor as it offers an entire new realm that never before existed through the projector's dvi inputs.
This is one of the areas we're excited about. We're talking about starting a classic film series as well as other possibilities using DVD content. We're also excited by the alternative content possibilities. While digital projection may not do much to improve our regular business, we see real growth opportunities from alternative content which was not realistic with film.

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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 09-30-2011 04:55 PM      Profile for Ramon Lamarca Marques   Email Ramon Lamarca Marques   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
RESPECT the history and the heritage that is film....not to mention the fact that it is how you make your effin living, dude. Denigrating it only makes you sound like a fool.
Frank, your post exposes very accurately and passionately what many of us think. I went to one of the first digital screenings in London some years ago with great interest and no preconceptions, it was Toy Story 2. When I left the cinema I could not believe that someone had dared to put such a mediocre presentation, I even asked one of the ushers if they had put a smaller screen for the digital presentation. They had not, but it was a huge let down.

Lately on, I saw Robin Hood (the Errol Flynn version) in digital and it felt like watching a film in a pub, basically just sophisticated video.

I have seen film done very, very, very well and I could not believe all those people praising digital (during its early years), which to me looked mediocre at best. This was compounded by the fact that films like The Painted Veil were shown in the wrong aspect ratio when projected digitally.

Then it came all the lies about 3-D, saying that 3-D would save the industry of film exhibition because it was unique to cinemas. What a lot of BS I thought and I am not even in the industry, I am just a paying member of the audience. It was then when I thought, how can anyone trust these people to produce a good film presentation with the amount of rubbish they say? They haven’t got a clue. Although I like stereoscopic films, it seems that they are making the same mistakes over again and 3-D is going away again. In London films like Captain America and Final Destination 5 only mention 3-D in very, very small print. If 3-D goes, many cinemas will be left with silver screens that are not ideal for flat presentations.

As yourself, it infuriates me the amount of lies that are said about film to justify digital. It is like all those people who write (and get paid) to say things like 3-D before digital was only anaglyphic. I mean, in any other businesses someone spreading so much ignorance would be shut down.

And finally, someone who denigrates film so much can never be good for cinema exhibition. Someone who denigrates film in the way many digital people do is a complete ignorant and ignorant people hardly ever do good things for business.

I think I am not wrong if I say that nowadays, and due to limitations in human vision, it would be possible to create both digitally and with film images that go above the human eyes' resolution. And so, theoretically we could have perfect images with analogue and digital. Obviously, digital is cheaper and easier to handle.

The very first digital projection I have enjoyed is Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and what do you know? It was scanned at 4K. I did not know that when I saw the digital projection, I have just found out later. At 4K, I believe, film grain is preserved better and it shows. Yet digital, to my eyes, does not do dark blacks very well, it reminds me of the problems early LCD monitors had. When there are scenes with what should be a dark pitch black or when there are scenes where shadow and light play an important role, it looks a bit washed out. The greatness of black and white film stock is lost, but film is crap, right? I am told that this is due to inherent limitations in current DLP projectors and that with the arrival of laser projection this will be solved, I hope so.

Moreover, for many of us projected film is an experience we treasure and not because of stupid nostalgia but because we have rightly enjoyed it over the years and losing it is a shame. Who on earth enjoys losing a gratifying experience? I understand a projectionist not missing having to do the extra work to put a cinema presentation, but as a member of the audience I will miss that. I am fully aware that I am part of a very small minority.

For a projectionist, I understand that the analogy of a typewriter and a word processor is correct when talking about film and digital, but for the viewer this does not apply. If film is done correctly, the difference between projected film and projected video would be more akin to the difference between oil on canvas and watercolour, different textures.

As we have mentioned before in other posts, the other problem is that the common denominator these days has become the just OK presentation. I understand cinemas in small populations celebrating digital after years of showing battered prints. But in big cities, after what we have had, with 70mm and big cinemas and pristine prints, why should we settle with DLP 2K? I mean, why on earth should we pay to see a projection of a DVD? I never return to cinemas that have dared to show a DVD without publicising it. If they want to cheat on their customers, good luck. More and more often you hear horrifying stories of cinemas showing DVDs. Recently in Barcelona they have shown ET on DVD and in some screens they even got the audio and the subtitles wrong and had to change them whilst the DVD was being projected.

Shame on those who unfairly portray film history, many of them should know better. As to digital cinema, it will probably look very good in the future, but 4K DI is needed and laser projection. The mediocrity of 2K DI and 2K projection, whilst a big deal in small populations, ads nothing to the cinema experience in the big cities in the world.

As to cinema history, it is a shame that classic titles cannot be enjoyed, at least, in some specialised museums, in the medium they were historically shown. I need to get my dose of film projected several times per year and luckily I can still do it, I do not know how many of you can leave without it.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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 - posted 09-30-2011 05:41 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see something in all of this beginning to approach like a high school debate with two teams, each representing: Purists and Realists.

Who's gonna get their point across?

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Ramon Lamarca Marques
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Edgware, England, UK
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 09-30-2011 06:20 PM      Profile for Ramon Lamarca Marques   Email Ramon Lamarca Marques   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
I see something in all of this beginning to approach like a high school debate with two teams, each representing: Purists and Realists.


I am certainly a purist but I have the upmost respect for the realists who need to adapt to a changing industry. I just regret the lies about film exhibition and, as a consumer, the fact that 2K projection from 2K DI is far from impressive.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
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 - posted 09-30-2011 06:40 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ramon Lamarca Marques
the fact that 2K projection from 2K DI is far from impressive.
The average 2K presentation in the average theatre today is far superior to the average 35mm presentation. As I've said over and over, I'm not talking about digital vs 35mm in the ideal settings, I'm talking about digital vs 35mm in the average multiplex. And even then, I have a hard time seeing a 35mm presentation surpassing the digital presentation. You could argue it's just as good, but I can't see it being better.

Using digital from the time of Toy Story 2 (1999) as a barometer for today's digital is completely unfair. I saw Star Wars Episode 1 at the Metreon in San Francisco in digital at around the same time and was largely unimpressed. But the picture from the average 2D presentation is bright, sharp, and completely free of any noticeable pixelation.

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 09-30-2011 07:14 PM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the digital presentations at average multiplexes is getting worse than average film presentation! Focus is being taken for granted more than ever since it is less critical with the sharp dlp pixel grid.Many of the digital installations are being rushed and are not set up optimally.Without dedicated booth staff windows are getting too dusty.This is what I see when I go to a digital show.
I am constantly comparing the same film as projected digital vs film and the film is winning.Digital is steadier and blander.
This is with film setups that kick ass for the most part.
If you are not seeing this than I wonder what level of film projection you are comparing it too?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-30-2011 07:54 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Picture quality aside, the economics of [dlp] don't work for exhibitors. The hardware is twice the price of a 35mm setup and lasts for 5-10 years instead of 25-50. Maintenance and upgrade issues are still largely unknowns.

As a result, I would be amazed if the total US screen count in 2025 is even half of what it is today.

I find the technology sort of interesting from an IT perspective (as that is my day job), and large-scale video projection does offer some interesting possibilities for non-cinema purposes, but the reality is that it really is not ready for prime time in 2011 and, even when quality and reliability improve, will require exhibitors to spend more to get less. From an economic perspective, it is a loser.

The fact that the "average" DLP presentation is perceived to be superior to the "average" 35mm show says more about crappy 35mm projection (and print quality) than it does about DLP.

When/if we get to the point where movies no longer exist on film, the long-term/archival issue scares me as well.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

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From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 09-30-2011 10:10 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, Ramon, Victor and Scott's last posts hit the nail on the head.

Digital has some advantages, including alternate content and consistent quality over several runs, but the lack of resolution, screen-door effect, black level resolution, and the "planned obsolescence" of the equipment and loss of archival consistency/stability is very worrisome.

And yes, theatres that were at the end of the distribution chain seeing worn-out prints definitely benefit from digital.

But ANYONE who says the current 2k digital is better than a PROPERLY made and projected 35mm print has some serious eyesight problems.

Digital also helps those who couldn't do film right, BUT those are the same exhibs who will end up doing Digital WRONG by their same lack of care.

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