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Author Topic: Shut down the server the right way Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 02-11-2012 07:01 PM                     Tony, You may disagree with me, but I am free to write my opinion on this forum as soon as it does not break forum's rules - Brad is the judge here or course! I don't necessarily have to agree with you, particularly if you show off your expertise and experience. That said, I have also respected Steve's and Brad's opinion on this forum. Their opinions and advices are something that have always had a big influence on my job. The power figure I wrote is based on the rated power - I did point it out - so yes, it's not accurate but I think I got to the point anyway. Google published a report about hard drives reliability a few years ago. It turned out that hard drives running at lower temperatures were more prone to fail. So why all servers have massive airflow around HDs to keep them cool? Again, not arguing, just wondering. Here's the link to the report. And, again, I assume everybody has to turn their servers off every now and then, for whatever reason. Why on earth I should be forced to unplug a Linux computer to turn it off? cheers Marco  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-11-2012 07:43 PM                     Marco, It is because pulling the plug doesn't harm anything the way the server was designed. If it REALLY bothers you though, you can putty into it and shut it down command line.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-11-2012 08:21 PM                        It does seem odd they would design it that way.......since every computer owner has it burned into their skull from day one that you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER unplug a computer without shutting it down first, and if you DO do that, Windows sometimes even chews you out for it. So I can understand a person's reluctance to just pull the plug.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 02-12-2012 02:22 AM                     quote: Marco Giustini Google published a report about hard drives reliability a few years ago. It turned out that hard drives running at lower temperatures were more prone to fail. So why all servers have massive airflow around HDs to keep them cool? The study doesn't imply that running them at "lower" temperatures increases failure rates. The study shows that by the 3rd and 4th years, the failure rates increase linearly with the increase in temperature. The exception is running them at around 15 deg C, which increases the failure rate significantly in the 1st year over mid-range temps though by that 3rd and 4th year, the hottest ones still fail at a much higher rate. So in short: They're cooling the HD's because - 1) Cooling isn't, as you imply, the same as cooling them to ~15 deg C. 2) They expect most of their disks to make it 3 years, by which time the increase in temperature increases linearly with the increase in failure rates  |  IP: Logged Tommy Zackariasson Film Handler Posts: 31 From: Ed, Dalsland, Sweden Registered: Aug 2011 posted 02-12-2012 10:27 AM                     Tony, and everyone - I'm not saying you're wrong I just think this is a bit strange: To run a movie now and then you have to have a machine that sounds like a jet on constantly. Our venue is a versatile one with all kinds of events the week through. Sometimes a light or sound tech resides in the booth with the big window to the theater open. It could be a teatcher or a pupil from the school nearby. Sometimes we have meetings in the booth (it is a big room). Our old machines (born 1939 in Germany and retired last summer) kept very quite between shows! Maybe you see my point? Regards  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 02-12-2012 12:41 PM                     Tommy, if you have read the "DARK SIDE" thread you will note I just installed a server at a University I work at here in California. It stays on 24/7 as designed, and yes the student techs have have to change their habit of operating with the booth door open all the time (It is right at the main entry with a single set of doors separating it from the auditorium) and yet they will also probably only run one DCP per month if even that. The University's own IT department checked with me to remind me to leave it on all the time to avoid early drive failures. They accept this as part of the deal to have the privilege to run D-Cinema. (And this is a LEEDS certified facility.) I also now have some installs in people's HOMES for their screening rooms and they have no problem with leaving the server on. One client runs 1-2 shows a week and a few others once a month or less. As for the techs leaving "the big window to the theater open" during shows that is unprofessional in the extreme. When work is being done in the booth there will ALWAYS be noise of some kind, even if the techs just need to talk to one another. Your audience will hear that. Big no-no. Meetings in the booth? For what purpose? Why not meet in the auditorium? Do you see my point? You come on here because you had a lost show because the server failed to boot up, you were given several different professional's opinions/instructions telling you to QUIT shutting the server down, you countered with wasted energy use (a good point BTW), you were then given easy and concise options to look at to offset that energy use, you now come back with "Well the techs leave the window open and we have meetings in the booth..." Pathetic. For the last time, your choice is clear: Leave the server on like you are supposed to to ensure long-term reliability and be sure it WILL be up and ready for your infrequent shows; Or continue to not listen to people trying to help you, shut it down whenever you damn well please and suffer the consequences... but if you do don't come back here whining about another server crash. IMHO it sounds like you and/or your facility are not capable of handling the responsibility of properly operating a D-Cinema system.  |  IP: Logged Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 02-12-2012 01:32 PM                     Tony, Steve, and Brad are right. Having been responsible for server farms in other industries, we always held our breath (and noses) whenever we had to shut down servers for equipment moves, AC mains maintenance, or even equipment upgrades. Because we knew that we stood a really good chance of losing one server or another on power-up, and we'd have to replace whatever went bad, (yep, mostly drives) and restore from backups, taking valuable time. Shutting down servers is always nervous time, no matter what industry you're in. Avoid whenever possible, or plan on a lot of disaster recovery time, mostly at the worst possible moment. How much revenue would you lose if a server refused to come back up again on a show-day, and you have to send an audience home? Would that offset a few watts saved by shutting them down? Ask the owners. I'll think they'll say "No." and then mention something about keeping your job. That's a coin-toss I wouldn't want to make. Be well.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-12-2012 01:44 PM                     Just do what you think is best to operate your system - I've seen small cinema locations shut down their servers on a daily basis....and they still are working okey.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-12-2012 03:14 PM                     BTW...I'm not as emphatic as the others on leaving the servers on for occasional use theatres. While it is true that the HDD will have a higher fail rate...keep a drive around...even shutting down you are going to only lose about a drive a year and that will likely be cheaper than leaving an occasional use theatre always powered. For my regular theatres, yes 24-hour power is the prescribed method. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Tommy Zackariasson Film Handler Posts: 31 From: Ed, Dalsland, Sweden Registered: Aug 2011 posted 02-12-2012 04:11 PM                     Well how shall I put this...I am not arguing, just some peaceful reflections over the new way to show movies, that's all...maybe It's hard to get that through in a foreign language.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-12-2012 07:00 PM                     If you are only going to run 2-3 shows a month, I'm fine with shutting down the server. If the server is to be used daily and it is being shut down at night...FOOLISH!!!  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 02-13-2012 01:01 AM                     Brad, would you still make that same recommendation when dealing with a staff of *ahem* less-qualified persons, such as the staff I deal with at the University? I for one would much rather deal with the occasional drive failure from the 24/7 operation than trust the booth monkeys to know what to do in the event the server fails to boot up properly. UCI is going to have to adapt to the new requirements of D-Cinema, they can no longer do what they have done in the past, which is to bring in a print 15 minutes before showtime and expect a perfect show without time to inspect the film. Since all their shows tend to be one-shots, they are risking a disaster unless they change their habits. I guess in Tommy's case the real question is do they have a spare drive or two on hand in case of trouble, and more importantly do they know how to swap it and let things rebuild properly? I picture them, as in the case of the University, expecting to be able to ingest and run in a few hour (or less) "before the show" window..that leaves them NO TIME to deal with a problem (like Mike's slow drive in the other thread.)THIS THREAD Tommy, I don't see a language barrier issue here...you are very clear in your posts. It is just very frustrating to hear excuses as to why you can't or won't do the right thing. Now, if as Brad stated, you are only running one or two shows a month, then you can shut down the server between uses..BUT, and this is a big BUT (no comments from the peanut gallery if you please) you MUST make sure you restart the server in plenty of time to deal with any issues, allow time to ingest the show AND run a test show. Is all that effort worth it to you? If so, I wish you nothing but the best of luck. I would suggest you restart the server the day before the scheduled show, ingest and test then leave the server ON until after the show. That might cut the risk a bit. Oh, and if you don't already have them, get a set of (or at least one) spare hard drives and keep them on hand for the inevitable drive failure. I have a full set on standby for UCI. And re-read Jim Henk's post....his primary occupation is dealing with servers of all kinds and he knows of what he speaks.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-13-2012 05:46 PM                     A few thoughts: A hard drive is a mechanical devce, if it is spinning, it is wearing out. Kind of like what you think of a zenon lamp, do not shut it off for just a few minutes, but if you will not be using it for hours, turn it off. That being said, a lot of break downs happen at power up. If a server is having trouble booting up, something is wrong, and needs to be fixed before it fails completely. If you are afraid that your server will not boot, call a tech, quick. You may save yourself a lot of time and money in the long run. A lot of servers are in use 24/7, that is why they are left on 24/7. Just because your server is designed so that it CAN be left on 24/7, does not mean that it MUST be left on 24/7. YOUR server is NOT in use 24/7. We ALL need to do what we can to save this little planet that we depend on for life, before it decides to get rid of the problem (us).  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-13-2012 06:12 PM                        Well if the planet decides to get rid of us, a few cinema servers saving watts is going to be the least of our problems. It's not just servers. I've had three, count'em three, computer monitors die on power-up. One time I just shut mine off because I was going to be gone for a weekend....came back Monday morning, turned it on, "nothing." The other two happened due to extended power outages. (Yes, I turned off the power-strips before the power came back on, so no "spike" did it.) Power restored - switch on - dead monitor. So now every computer I am involved with is left on, 24-7. I do set up the monitors to go to sleep after a half-hour of inactivity...I'm not a total electricity junkie. But I no longer trust the lowly power switch. I also wonder about fluorescent lights. We replaced all the ancient lights in our store with 25 of these new, energy-efficient types about five years ago. I swear we've had to replace EVERY SINGLE ballast in those fixtures, some more than once, since then. I wonder if leaving them on all the time would increase their longevity?  |  IP: Logged Ian Freer Expert Film Handler Posts: 135 From: Wellington, New Zealand Registered: Oct 2003 posted 02-13-2012 06:40 PM                     This is perhaps slightly off-topic, but what are the possible (negative) consequences of simply rebooting the server? Does this spin down the drives etc? I have some come across some playback issues where a reboot fixed the problem. I recommend my customers leave their servers on 24/7, but now advise a once weekly reboot, seems to help avoid some occasional problems... Cheers, Ian  |  IP: Logged

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