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Topic: Shut down the server the right way

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-13-2012 06:43 PM

Ideally...reboot the server without pulling the plug. That way the drives don't spin down.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 02-13-2012 08:02 PM

Fluorescent lights and ballasts will last roughly "forever" if they're never turned off. "Start" is what wears them out.

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Jock Blakley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Oct 2011

posted 02-13-2012 08:46 PM

Don't start me on halogen and CFL replacements for incandescent lamps! Our theatre has 12 V globes installed prior to 1982 that are still happily lighting up the EXIT signs each night but the halogen GLS replacement for normal 240 V lighting fail after only a few months.

As to D-Cinema equipment, our installers never said anything about leaving the server on (and Doremi does provide the ever-so-easily-accessed SHUT DOWN command). We were however told to switch the Barco on and off at the three-phase wall plug rather than use the switch on the back of the projector because the wall plug is much more easily replaced.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-14-2012 06:05 PM

Mike, it sounds like you have power problems. You might want to have the power company check it.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-14-2012 06:46 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
I swear we've had to replace EVERY SINGLE ballast in those fixtures, some more than once, since then. I wonder if leaving them on all the time would increase their longevity?

..what I was wondering on the power thing ... Just a volt or two below the rating loves to kill ballasts since the caps inside will begin to act like resistors, where they get hot and can open.

Same thing if you plug a unit in requiring 230V and your line is only putting out 220V - raises havoc with the innards.

Might need some line condition device or similar...

quote: Jock Blakley
We were however told to switch the Barco on and off at the three-phase wall plug rather than use the switch on the back of the projector because the wall plug is much more easily replaced.

Our Barcos runs through the UPS, thus when I do a bi-weekly projector shutdown, I just pull the plug that is connected to the Barco..wait a few then plug it back in..and leave the switch alone.

-Monte

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 02-14-2012 08:41 PM

quote: Frank Cox
Fluorescent lights and ballasts will last roughly "forever" if they're never turned off. "Start" is what wears them out.

There is a formula linking how you treat a fluorescent tube and it's lifetime, see Economics of switching fluorescent lamps (PDF).

Summarizing, the lamps are only good for a fixed number of strikes, and for certain number of total running hours, and when either one expires the fluoro tube is dead.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-15-2012 07:12 AM

Having read this thread I start to think wether I should leave my car engine running all the time in order to prevent expensive repairs...

- Carsten

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2012 11:42 AM

quote: Bruce Hansen
Mike, it sounds like you have power problems. You might want to have the power company check it.

Oh we definitely have power problems. That's why I have about a half-dozen or more "UPS" devices in my life. Our power grid in this town is subject to outages whenever there is so much as a sprinkle of rain or a flicker of lightning during the summer, or sometimes for no reason at all. They blame it on some "transformer station" outside of town to the east about 25 miles. We had over 30 outages last year, ranging from two seconds to six hours. (Thankfully, most of them are closer to the two-second range.)

I suppose that could be part of what causes our ballast problems, never thought of that before.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-15-2012 12:32 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
Having read this thread I start to think wether I should leave my car engine running all the time in order to prevent expensive repairs...

Funny you should mention that. Because that was the thrust of ads for Slick 50 motor oil some years back. Noting that when you start your car the oil is in the pan, and not in your engine, they said that you should switch to using their specially formulated oil (???) "Because starting your car is a terrible thing to do."

Ha ha, yes, but it was an effective ad.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2012 12:49 PM

Bad analogy. The car was designed to be started and stopped repeatedly.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-15-2012 12:56 PM

quote:
the oil is in the pan, and not in your engine,

(..not to drift off-topic too much, but have to add..)

Or, you can get an add-on device that keeps the oil pressure up in the motor galleys and main bearings when the motor is at rest.

..why a lot of synth oil users that really baby their motors use AMSOIL - this synth oil walks all over "Slick 50".

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-15-2012 02:58 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Bad analogy.

Of course, of course. Just noting silly trivia, and that there's nothing new under the Sun.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-16-2012 06:10 AM

quote: Brad Miller
Bad analogy. The car was designed to be started and stopped repeatedly.

And that (or the opposite) is written exactly where in the cars (or the servers/hard drives) manual or datasheet?

The fact that gear is built to be operated 24/7 usually means it CAN be operated 24/7 - not that it must.

Drive failures can occur any time - that's why these things have a RAID.

The thing is to DEMAND gear that is able to be used responsibly. Easy to calculate the hd/energy cost tradeoff. Bulbs blow when switched on or off. Do you leave your bulbs on 24/7? Rectifier inrush current? Do you leave your xenons burning 24/7? No, you calculate a trade off.

Besides that, I don't actually see a benefit here ESPECIALLY on the Dolby. Their drive failure rates obviously do not reflect any of those myths. They simply fail constantly.

- Carsten

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-16-2012 12:48 PM

Carsten, you clearly have Dolby servers with the evil ES drives. That's not the server's fault. Sure it was Dolby's fault for using them, but every server manufacturer has tried different drives and all of them have had their not-so-great drive choices. Overall Dolby's server has provided us with near-perfect uptime and we're talking a LOT of screens. Doremi is extremely reliable too.

Regardless I agree with you on the trade-off. Xenon bulbs are a fantastic example, but I still hold my ground when it comes to servers. In the end we are only talking advice here anyway. The customers do what they wish.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 02-16-2012 12:52 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
........Drive failures can occur any time - that's why these things have a RAID.
(and:)
.......Besides that, I don't actually see a benefit here ESPECIALLY on the Dolby. Their drive failure rates obviously do not reflect any of those myths. They simply fail constantly.

You are right, drive failures CAN occur at ant time, and yes that's why there are RAID arrays BUT it is PROVEN that leaving the drives spinning REDUCES the chances of failure significantly. Like I said before, which is more irresponsible, resource-wise? The energy use (which can be EASILY offset in other areas of operations) or the wasted resources of replacing and junking bad drives? It's a no-brainer.

As for the Dolby drives "simply failing constantly" what server are you talking about? It was brought up in another thread that the DSS100 drives were failure prone. The DSS200 drives are, so far, much more reliable. And if you are one of those turning off your servers nightly then you have seriously skewed the failure rate right there.

Bottom line is this:

If you are an operation that only runs a couple shows a week/month, then it MIGHT benefit you to shut down your servers..but as I said before you would be smart to power back up the DAY BEFORE a show, ingest, verify, then LEAVE THE SERVER ON until after the show. That way you have a better shot at saving the show if anything goes wrong.

If you run daily shows, then you are incredibly stupid if you shut down the server every day, you are killing the lifespan of your drives (PROVEN FACT in both cinema and server farms in other apps) so you are better off leaving it on 24-7 and offsetting the energy use in other areas.

Simple really.

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