my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Dolby DSS200 vs Doremi (Page 2)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Dolby DSS200 vs Doremi Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 02-29-2012 02:37 PM                     Dave, HFR limitations are in HD-SDI connections only. HDSDI is roughly 1.5Gbps each. HFR is supposed to be 48fps x 2 eyes = 96fps. If you check this link you can easily calculate the required bandwidth for any formats. You can still run 48fps 2D on a doremi with no modifications required, but you need to drop the colour depth to 10bits and colour sampling to 4:2:2 (like 3D... yes, after all 3D is 48fps!). If you want go higher - say 3D 48fps (96fps in total) - then you need an external Media Block - IMB - with ANY servers. The difference is that with a DSS200 you can just unplug your LINK cable and connect the ethernet connector to the new IMB; with the Doremi I guess you need to remove the MB and install a PCI-Express card - not sure whather this upgrade is/will be available. Also, Dolby runs on Linux. It's XDC that runs under Windows XP O_O  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-29-2012 09:29 PM                     OK, I understand. The IMB system lets you run 3D with 4-4-4 color as well I think. The "default cues" thing I discovered by accident. It is covered in the Doremi documentation somewhere but it is not really clear. I was doing a TMS installation on an existing Doremi server, and I could not figure out why the thing kept doing stuff before running what I wanted. Playing a sound test clip only, I would see "cuing spl black" and a few seconds wait with automation cues firing before my sound test played. I called Doremi wondering what was possessing the server: after a while the helldesk tech mentioned the default_cues.xml file. Recently delivered servers have a default_cues_xml.sample file with a fire trigger cue but I think it assumes GPIO-IN1 is the fire trigger. If you delete the .sample extension it will be active. One thing I don't know is how to import it into cinelister for editing. I can open it in a xml editor but actual editing this way is fraught with danger - the format has to be exactly right for cues to work and the generic editor is very user-unfriendly. I've come to believe that these .xml files should only be created or edited using the specific software using them.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-01-2012 06:20 AM                     Pete, just how expensive do you think eCNA automations are? Under $1K us (in fact more than a hundred less). Compared to film automations...super-cheap. Don't get me wrong, I think macro in Dolby's GUI would be a nice benefit but I'm going to be putting an automation in there anyway. In your case of having all of those functions happening...you can do that on the Dolby...stock though with the timing offsets, I can see it growing old with each show...then again, most folks copy one show to the next and just change the particulars. I agree that I would like to see Dolby's Ethernet configurable to control devices...the JSD80 can be controlled via RS232, if desired though. Via a Lantronix RS232/LAN converter, one could control your dimmer too. The NA10 is indeed gone. It was certainly overpriced for what it was (an Ethernet controlled relay box). Then again, it was the first of its kind back in the day when DCinema was very new. I think I've pulled out all of the ones I put in...not that they didn't work but what one can do with an eCNA just made it make sense.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-01-2012 07:52 AM                     Steve, we've bene here before, remember I live and work in rip off Britain! If I convert you $1k to £ (that's before we talk about import duty, VAT, etc, etc), our in house automation comes in at less than half the cost of the eCNA. Plus it's built here in the UK, so we're doing our bit for the GDP. Inted Jnior is a useful little box but SO expensive. You need 1 + extension module to get to the same 16 outputs ours has, and your at somewhere around double the cost. Honestly, we've got exhibitors niggling over wether to buy a rack/pedstal, or to build something in timber themselves. Or as i have seen in one place (not our work I hasten to add), turn an old wardrobe on its side, and plonk the poor Barco on that.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-02-2012 02:07 AM                     BTW - since Doremi software release 2.xx, there is an option for an 'always active' fire trigger, that is, without any show playing or loaded. Besides that - yes, to play 3d HFR, you need an IMB, no matter what server you have. The issue is - if you want to buy NOW, Doremi IMB+ShowVault is your only option actually on the market, and it costs you more or less the same as a classic server with built-in IMB. If you buy a DSS200 now, you can install the Dolby IMB later this year when it is finally available, but you have to spent another 7000-9000US$ for it, which is basically wasted, unless Dolby or your integrator offers you a trade-in deal for the DSS200 media-block. Dolby lists the Dolby DSS220 + IMB combo on their cinema products catalog since last October, but they have no information regarding final pricing or availability. The Doremi IMB is in the market for over a year now and well tested. Only issue is that the Doremi PCIe connection, yet a standard in itself, has to be considered proprietary as far as DCI/IMB connectivity is concerned, and the connection length constraints the server to be in the booth, not completely separated as possible with the gigabit ethernet used by all other IMBs. But for most houses, that is not a real issue. I would NOT buy a classic server with built-in IMB anymore, it's outdated technology from my perspective, especially with HFR 3D coming. Unless you don't care about a few thousand bucks for retrofitting already later this year. Get the Doremi ShowVault+IMB, or make sure you get a trade-in deal for a Dolby IMB system. There are other, very different IMB approaches in the making by Christie and GDC, but they will take a while until considered market ready and available. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2012 06:34 AM                     I disagree on the IMB thing. If HFR 3D is not on your high priority list, then the IMB gets one nothing but extra hoops to jump through. There is the fact that the sound now has to come from the projector too. One also gets into boot up sequences since part of the server is now part of the projector. Functionally, what does an IMB get you? -Steve  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-02-2012 09:57 AM                       The upcoming IMB from Dolby will be 4K if that matters.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2012 11:09 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag Functionally, what does an IMB get you? Essentially just what you already know. 1. An aggravation to boot up sequences, potentially including the need to reboot the server every day (not smart). 2. Additional wiring to pull the sound out of the projector. 3. It makes all of your movies look like cheap tv soap operas.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-02-2012 11:20 AM                        So, what do theatres with IMB setups do? Leave the projector powered up 24/7? Reboot the servers daily? Something else? It seems that there should be a way to have the thing re-negotiate marriage without having to reboot the entire server.  |  IP: Logged Phil Ranucci Expert Film Handler Posts: 236 From: Carpinteria,CA, United States Registered: May 2006 posted 03-02-2012 01:26 PM                     We've got a Doremi ShowVault/IMB and a Barco DP32. The Barco's power supply fans run when the power switch is off, so it's never truly off. We leave the server on 24/7 and don't have to re-marry.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2012 08:21 PM                     I'll also add that yes, for 4K one is required to have an IMB...but for your average 2K 2D theatre...what does an IMB bring?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-03-2012 08:44 AM                     HD-SDI is a dead end from todays perspective. Your bandwith into the projector is multipled with an IMB. Be it for HFR or future higher DCP bandwiths. Wether you like HFR or not. Personally, I don't like HFR for 2D. For 3D, it makes a real difference on the perceptional level. If I would skip everything I dislike in the cinema business, I would have no movies to play every other week. In near 100% of the installations, what's the big difference in feeding an AES and /or automation cable from the projector to the sound processor/AD instead of from the server? Well, you save two SDI cables AND get rid of the weird Cinelink encryption. Remember those nice LD log issues? At least as long you are using IMBs with Gigabit Ethernet following the DCOSA standard, you have a better choice of mixing manufacturers and getting more competition, and split possible replacement cost. If only more IMBs would be market ready. The Doremi PCIe interface was probably the easiest for Doremi to 'externalize' their existing MediaBlock, that's the reason they were first to market. I'm sure they will later come out with a DCOSA compatible unit as well. @Sam: ALL IMBs are 4k capable, or, better said, like the Dolby, have firmware upgrade options to 4k and HFR. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-03-2012 11:14 AM                     I suppose...then again, there is nothing that stops us from going to 3G SDI...which Barco has already done. That would get us 4:4:4 on a single cable. Depending on the booth, putting the sound in the projector and routing that elsewhere can be a big pain. Loosing the Enigma (Link Decryptor) board would be a nice thing to do though. Just had one take a theatre down. Despite the server downloading the logs, it claimed it was full. Moved it to another screen...problem moved with it. I definitely think Doremi is furthest along on the IMB front. I also like that they seem to be thinking about Consumer 3D formats with HDCP compliance to deal with things like BluRay and even Cable/Satellite broadcasts. Not that the others wont but again, they seem to be a step ahead.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-03-2012 11:28 AM                       Regarding IMB's and 4K; It is entirely possible future lower cost projectors will be 2K and HFR. HFR offers up many more possible movies than 4K. If it happens you heard it here first.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 03-03-2012 12:05 PM                     Christie has also a 3G PIB board - don't remember whether for series 1 or 2?  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.