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Author Topic: Dolby DSS200 vs Doremi Marnix Koster Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Wehl / Gelderland / Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-06-2012 03:53 PM                     will the HFR be an issue if you don't use 3D? or will any server be able to play hfr without 3D  |  IP: Logged Antti Nayha Master Film Handler Posts: 268 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Oct 2008 posted 03-06-2012 06:03 PM                     It is my understanding that Series 2 projectors, paired with current Dolby and Doremi servers, can play 2D HFR content up to 60 fps without an IMB. That’s as much as the dual HD-SDI connection can handle. Even then the quality has to be lowered from from 4:4:4 12-bit to 4:2:2 10-bit, although the difference is probably invisible to most viewers. HFR is currently being pushed specifically for 3D content. We will see if 2D HFR D-Cinema ever catches on for ”major” films, but I could imagine some smaller ”festival” type films (shorts, documentaries, low-budget features) using it – the same ones that are currently sent to festivals as 50i/60i HDCAM tapes. Personally I’m not enthusiastic about 2D HFR at all.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-06-2012 06:34 PM                     Even Series I can play HFR - if you refer to 2D/48fps as HFR. For now it seems though that HFR is only pushed for 3D - and that means, minimum 96fps input frame rate. 3G-SDI only gives the same bandwith as Dual-HD-SDI . Dual 3G is not standardized or used to my knowledge- and no server offers it anyway. So why stick with it when 4k, higher DCP bandwiths, HFR, etc. will need even higher performance within 1-2 years? TI established the IMB interface as THE high-performance interface for all Series-II projectors. So there IS a standard. Why not use it then? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-07-2012 02:00 AM                     Because... For 90+% of the theatres...2D up to 48fps is all they will ever play...for 10 years + to come. Reliability wise, I'll take the SDI lines and keeping the playback in the playback device...not splitting it up. IF 4K is in your future (not an option for .98" machines unless something dramatic changes) or HFR 3D (3D is going to die like it has in the past with just an occasional "hit" to cling to) then yes IMBs are in your future...but the other 90% won't get any benefit and only headaches. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-07-2012 06:30 PM                     Steve, I get back to you on this 90+% number once The Hobbit and AVATAR sequels and their followers have hit the market. I don't see ANY 2D HFR happening for a while, though. Different picture for 3D HFR. Besides that, Doremis IMB offers HDMI 1.4 consumer 3D on it's HDMI input for alternative content, be it BluRay or DVB-S for live broadcast. Christie, Barco and NEC start selling their projectors with their own IMBs factory built-in now. I wouldn't care too much for existing equipment, as none of these features are showstoppers. But whoever is in the market for a new investment should know his options and not stick to an outdated equipment standard. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-08-2012 02:41 AM                     I agree that Doremi's IMB has some appealing features to it. As to projector manufacturers making their own IMBs...just who's SMS system is to work with it? -Steve  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 03-15-2012 10:55 PM                        quote: Steve Guttag just who's SMS system is to work with it Call me naive, but surely DCOSA servers will appear eventually which should work with any compatible IMB?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-16-2012 02:41 AM                     You are naive! (you had to know that was coming) I don't know about the whole open DCOSA thing. It sounds good on paper but I'm wondering if it won't lead to more finger-pointin' once it is implemented (who is at fault when it doesn't work?). I'm also a bit discouraged that I hear about Dolby's soon-to-be-released IMB (has been in that state for some time now) when USL has also been on the cusp with their IMB yet I don't hear about Dolby's server with USL's IMB being ready. One would think that if USL was ready that those two should be already be with a solution...if DCOSA really allowed all parties to openly develop and implement devices. One more thing I really want IMBs to do is be POWERED FROM THE SERVER. This business of putting have of the server in the projector and relying on the projector power to boot it up sets up an annoying situation where the server is left on but the projector is powered down at night and then the server might have to be power cycled each day just to wake everything up properly.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 03-17-2012 06:50 PM                     Yes, it is strange that currently so many IMBs are queueing up behind Doremis only available solution. NECs IMB and storage server is available, but it's a closed all-NEC solution. Christie has announced another completely different IMB design where you actually connect the transport drives through SATA&/CRU interfaces, and they play the encrypted DCP directly from it (no RAID storage). That is, the IMB also contains the SMS. It will also play MPEG-2 and h.264 encoded media. Interesting concept, but it also calls for a lot of trouble I would think. I hope it is at least ingesting/buffering the DCP to a local SSD. BTW - I just learned that Doremis IMB not only supports consumer 3D formats through it's HDMI input, but also passes through 8ch LPCM HDMI audio to the IMBs AES/EBU outputs. Nice feature, given the fact that HDMI->AES/EBU converters are impossible to find and the DTS AP20 is the only (expensive) cinema audio processor for HDMI audio. The Doremi IMB won't decode Dolby/DTS HD bitstream formats from HDMI, but most current BluRay Players can decode these formats to 8ch LPCM to HDMI optionally, so the necessity of external TrueHD etc. decoding can be averted in an elegant way. Why use external decoders if there already is one in nearly every BluRay Player? I don't like the PCIe and proprietary Doremi ShowVault SMS/IMB combo in general with the advent of DCOSA, but given the fact that it is the only solution in the market for over a year now, it is at least a proven solution. Dolby had it's IMB/SMS solution in their october 2011 pricelist already, but it is still not available as it seems.  |  IP: Logged Antti Nayha Master Film Handler Posts: 268 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Oct 2008 posted 03-18-2012 04:54 AM                     Edit: deleted a useless comment here, never mind.  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 03-22-2012 08:03 PM                        quote: Steve Guttag You are naive! (you had to know that was coming) Yep. I guess I live in hope that this is one of those things that will come out in the wash; having a selection of IMBs that all have a GB Ethernet port on them for content, and commodity servers that have no smarts at all and especially aren't put together as a solution by a vendor seems very attractive. Just buy a HP or IBM server, load some simple file serving software and you're ready to go. I also like it that all the wiring will be just standard RJ45s on the wall. I hear what you say on the power issue and things getting broken, but it shouldn't have to be that way; with a commodity server and all the security smarts being in the projector, the projector with the IMB should be able to look after themselves.  |  IP: Logged

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