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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Topic: HFR - as sucky as I called it months ago?
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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler
Posts: 268
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 12-26-2012 04:25 AM
OK, finally caught a HFR 3D presentation of The Hobbit a week ago. No surprises there: 48 fps feels exactly as the 50/60 fps stuff we’ve all watched on TV since childhood. Cheap and anti-dramatic.
Regarding the sped-up look, the effect is definitely not caused by the higher frame rate alone as suggested by some people here. Think about it: do the sports broadcasts and daytime soaps look sped up to you? Having seen it with my own eyes, I fully agree with Marcel – the sped-up effect comes from the combination of HFR and a shortened shutter angle.
For an example, watch the 50 fps sample video in this Engadget article. Note that the article is slightly misinformed, and 50 fps playback on a common 60 Hz computer monitor is not completely smooth. Still, you can see the sped-up effect clearly. They don’t tell us which shutter speed they used, but I’d bet it’s no larger than 180°.
The 50/60 fps TV stuff is traditionally shot with a ”full” 360° shutter, which is why it doesn’t look sped up. Jackson could have done it this way in 48 fps, which would also have given the 24 fps versions a standard 180° motion blur. But apparently he preferred the sharper look from a shortened shutter speed.
The threshold of human perception has been said to fall somewhere between 55 and 70 fps, depending on who you ask. That would make sense, since I could still somewhat perceive the individual images (albeit faintly) when there was fast, high-contrast motion on the screen. When the HFR frame rate is raised to 60 fps for Avatar 2, I guess they may be able to get away with a 360° shutter angle and still get sharp enough motion. That would get rid of the Benny Hill Effect, but the Soap Opera Effect still remains of course.
Apart from the HFR, the picture looked video-ish and downright ugly a lot of the time. At worst, it was almost like a competitor’s demonstration of how poorly the RED camera handles high-contrast situations. This certainly contributes to the cheap TVish look and feel. It feels like a weird decision to use the RED for such a huge production. In comparison, just look at all the beautiful and cinematic 3D images in Hugo, shot with the Arri Alexa.
It’s interesting how artificial the makeup looks in HFR. A lot of people have commented that ”it’s just that you see the makeup better now since the image is sharper; the makeup needs to improve”. Well, I’m not convinced that there was anything wrong with the makeup. It seems more of a psychological effect to me – more about how it feels than how it looks. Besides, when I was suddenly taken out of the story by Elrond’s rubber ears, the shot was completely static. That means it wasn’t even any sharper in HFR! It’s just that my brain had been switched to ”non-fiction” mode by HFR. I think the ears would’ve looked fake to me even if they had been real.
Yes, 3D is a lot smoother and more realistic in HFR. I actually just forgot for several long periods that I’m watching a 3D film – something that I don’t recall happening with any of the 24 fps 3D features I’ve seen. It seems that with HFR, the stereo effect is now natural enough to make me forget about it.
Still, I’d rather have the 24 fps stutter for dramatic feature films, thank you very much. Please give me 3D in 4K and 14 foot-lamberts instead of HFR. And here’s an idea: couldn’t you just move the camera and all the stuff on screen a bit slower, so that strobing would be less of a problem even in 3D? Please? No, I didn’t think so…
Now, 30 fps might be an interesting compromise, although it would be more of a challenge to create a backwards-compatible 24 fps version.
Phew, that was long. Here are two more interesting articles, in case someone still cares:
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Joris Springer
Film Handler
Posts: 83
From: Almere, Flevoland, The Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 12-26-2012 08:01 PM
Sorry but why make a facepalm to people who dont notice the HFR?
Some people have not seen a 3D movie for a long time or they just don't notice it. I highly doubt that such behavior is worthy of a facepalm.
I took my father to The Hobbit in HFR 3D. He has an 3D LG TV at home (I think it is the 47LW650S so Passive 3D) so regularly watches 3D because I take him with me as often as I can to the cinema and so I think he is more qualified than the regular customer to have an opinion about this matter than the customer who watches 1 or 2 movies each year in the cinema (in my country) ).
And he hardly noticed the difference. He mentioned the faster movements, he also mentioned the higher brightness and so he was very happy with the HFR version.
Personally I agree with him, sure the lack of compatibility with the 24fps content sucks because the transitions are not that great (flashing images at the end of the content sometimes but that is a matter of patches and is the responsibility of the hardware suppliers (Barco, Christie, Sony, Nec, Doremi, XDC, Dolby, etc etc) ) but personally I believe (and listening to the customers I think I am right) that it is something that makes 3D easier and more comfortable to watch. Now we just need to have screens at home that can watch that kind of content in the same quality ;-) )
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