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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Can "anyone" install a Dolby Atmos system? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Can "anyone" install a Dolby Atmos system?
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-05-2014 02:28 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
The new Atmos installation at the Marcus Renaissance Cinema in Sturtevant, WI has the same problem. Rather than play Edge of Tomorrow in their UltraScreen DLX auditorium, which just got its Atmos installation recently, they are playing The Fault in Our Stars instead.
I think some theater operators are a little worried how Edge of Tomorrow will perform in the United States. It's already playing in theaters in some overseas markets and hasn't been doing so great. That's despite generally positive critics reviews here (the movie currently has a 88% "certified fresh" rating at Rotten Tomatoes). Maybe some overseas movie-goers don't get the Groundhog Day with aliens, guns and explosions concept. I think the movie should do pretty well here. I'd like to see it.

Regardless of how well Edge of Tomorrow performs, I don't think a love story featuring a girl hooked up to an oxygen tank fits a giant screen, big sound presentation. I wouldn't pay any price premium at all for that movie. At least Edge of Tomorrow has a native Atmos mix and has the spectacle and bombast that's fitting for giant sized screens.

quote: Scott Jentsch
Just goes to show that the right thing to do would be to have the best sound system in every auditorium instead of just one or a select few. This is THX all over again.
I don't think every auditorium needs Dolby Atmos, much less THX (even though some theaters have put THX in every standard auditorium). Few, if any, multiplex theaters had 70mm capability in every house. Although any theater playing a movie in 70mm usually played it for more than just one week.

Not enough movies are being mixed with Atmos to justify putting Atmos in every auditorium. And out of movies with Atmos tracks, not all of them use the Atmos format very well. Add the other variables to the situation, like Cinemark installing Auro 11.1 in a lot of theaters and a group of interests pushing DTS' OpenMDA format, which may or may not be any better than Auro, but a lot of theater operators are obviously holding off to see how much cheaper OpenMDA based products will be.

quote: Scott Jentsch
My guess is that a lot of theaters are waiting for the inevitable price drop from Dolby.
Dolby at least has to drop the list price on the CP850 sometime soon. I've seen it written in a couple places that theater operators don't pay anywhere near the $35K list price of the CP850, but they're still paying some serious money to install Atmos regardless of any price breaks Dolby is giving on the processor.

Most Atmos theaters have to install better surround array speakers and more of them. They also have to add more sub-bass cabinets, like at least a new pair in the surrounds. It might also be an opportunity to upgrade the stage speakers and even add more of them (5 towers instead of 3). An Atmos theater needs a huge number of amplifiers.

Most high quality amplifiers for movie theaters come in 1 or 2 channel capability. I think QSC has 1 four-channel model that is THX approved.

What would it take for a company like QSC to make new power amplifiers that output 8 or 16 channels of amplification? What are the design hurdles? Would such an amp be unable to operate off a traditional 120V 20amp electrical connection? Would there be quality issues of squeezing so many channels of amplification into one piece of rack mount equipment? Would such a thing save any money at all over the traditional 1-2 channel power amps?

I have a feeling there has to be some kind of hurdle present, otherwise we would have seen 8-channel & 16-channel power amps years ago. If such amplifiers provided a big cost savings over separate power amps we would see a lot more 4-way stage speaker setups in theaters.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

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From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
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- posted 06-05-2014 06:44 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I took a look at the specification papers that Dolby put out and it looks like our large single screen auditorium would require somewhere in the neighborhood of 48 total surround speakers, the amps to go with them, a CP850, 2 more subwoofers behind the screen, and maybe more subs in the surround array if I was Reading the charts properly. Going by list prices we would be somewhere well over $50,000 to install Atmos in our 50' by 100' auditorium. That was just a quick read over though and my math could be wrong.

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Harold Hallikainen
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From: Denver, CO, USA
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- posted 06-05-2014 07:48 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On multi-channlel amps, we're using two 8-channel amps and a 4-channel from Crown in our 13.1 MDA room. They can do 600W per channel. There's also a 4-channel that can do 1.25kW per channel.

Harold

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 12:15 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We're getting more buzz with that "The Fault in Our Stars" flick than the Tommy Cruise Sci-Fi flick ..but this leads to a different thread.

(What has Cruise done to get him stuck doing Sci-Fi flicks lately..?)

Monte

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Buck Wilson
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From: St. Joseph MO, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 02:25 AM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it normal for an Atmos installation to have surround speakers go all the way to the screen?

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Monte L Fullmer
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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 03:51 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our front surrounds are about 20ft from the face of the screen and are aimed at the two front rows positioned in the sloped section of the house.

Same with the front VoG speakers up in the ceiling - about that same distance from the face of the screen.

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Lyle Romer
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From: Davie, FL, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 05:34 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Buck Wilson
Is it normal for an Atmos installation to have surround speakers go all the way to the screen?
Not only is it normal, it is specified. From the Dolby Atmos Specifications:

"The distance between the front-most loudspeaker and the screen must be between 50 and 100% of the interspeaker spacing."

When the surrounds are used as a "bed" (fancy term for what was formerly a surround channel) in the mix, the front most surrounds are not used in the playback.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 09:51 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In addition to the added side wall and ceiling surround speakers running closer to the screen Dolby also recommends five stage channels instead of 3 for screens wider than 12 meters/40 feet.

Dolby Atmos could be used as a means of properly playing classic five-up-front 70mm mixes. Studios still have to figure out how to properly get 2.20:1 content framed in d-cinema.
[Razz]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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- posted 06-06-2014 09:59 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
5 stage channels should always be used in an Atmos system, regardless of the "recommendation". Case in point a mix such as Gravity there the dialogue is slowly roaming around the entire soundfield as the actors float should not have blatantly tighter spacing between surround speakers.

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Buck Wilson
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From: St. Joseph MO, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 12:25 PM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok. I thought so, but the way the Cinetopia GXL surrounds were seemed pretty unusual. They were spaced closer than the rest of the surrounds and RIGHT up on the screen. It was a very interesting auditorium, VERY steep rake to the stadium seating

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
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- posted 06-06-2014 01:55 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That does seem a little strange to have the surround speakers nearest to the screen spaced more closely together. Maybe they had one installation template for a standard surround array and then had too many extra surround speakers for Atmos to squeeze into that gap that usually exists between the screen and traditional surround array speakers.

The diagrams I've seen in Dolby's Atmos specs PDF show uniform surround speaker placement, although the speakers run all the way up to the screen.

That tighter spacing of the first few surround speakers might not matter at all (or maybe even be completely unnecessary). The Atmos processor is rendering for the geometry of the room rather than just playing specific audio tracks to certain speakers like conventional channel-based audio. IIRC, the position of each speaker has to be accurately measured and entered into the Atmos processor. The CP850 uses the data about the auditorium and the placement of every speaker to render that 3D audio image. Obviously more speakers and amps are going to yield more vivid, fluid panning and point source surround effects.

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Jonathan Goeldner
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- posted 06-06-2014 09:20 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought the extra surrounds closer to the screen were effectively used for the Atmos presentation of 'Gravity'

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-07-2014 05:47 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Edge of Tomorrow made good use of the extra surround speakers. I watched that movie last night. Best Atmos mix I've heard since Gravity.

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Lyle Romer
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From: Davie, FL, USA
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- posted 06-11-2014 06:22 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
My guess is that a lot of theaters are waiting for the inevitable price drop from Dolby. If the international installations can help Dolby recover their R&D costs and fund development of a 2nd-gen processor, maybe the cost of the processor will come down and in the meantime, some companies will come up with a mega-channel amp solution along with a buy-a-pallet of speakers deal so that doing these Atmos installs isn't like only having a six pack of Kit Kats for trick-or-treat.
Something that I think will help with the cost reduction is if the amplifier manufacturers accepted the audio via Atmos connect. This would eliminate the need for the CP850 to have D/A converters (and the external 1 or 2 D/As also). Perhaps when the amps are available, they will offer a CP855 that is cheaper without the D/As.

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Mohd Ridzuan
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From: K.L , Malaysia
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- posted 06-16-2014 04:12 PM      Profile for Mohd Ridzuan   Email Mohd Ridzuan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi FT, what is requirements version for DSS220 to support atmos as i cant find CP850 in the configuration setting. Thanx

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