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Author Topic: Color grading suite, advice on upgrade Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-12-2014 09:07 AM                     Absolutely go with the Xenon lamp if you are doing color grading. The 900 would suffice however if you also have a color space meter which I would assume a color grading lab would automatically purchase anyway. The NC900 does have mercury lamps but it is more color stable than one might think it to be. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-12-2014 09:13 AM                     Note, Ushio has the DXL-8BAF for those needing just 800-watts on a Barco. Christie USED to have apertures for the CP2000-M CP2210 but they are gone. I would not do color grading on the NC900C. Despite claims by others, I have not found it to be all that stable. Sufficient for cinemas where there was NO control over color though...just not in a color grading suite.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-12-2014 12:22 PM                        Semi-off-topic: how does a modern color grading operation work? I assume that this is for a DI, correct? Do you do the DCI version first and then make a rec. 709 version from that or vice-versa? I recently went through this process (sort of), but it was a photochemical color timing process to produce prints, and then an IP went off to the telecine department of the lab, where they made a rec. 709 HDCAM master. A DCP was made from that and it took multiple attempts before they scaled the luminance values correctly for DCI (the first attempts used the 16-235 broadcast range and not the 0-255 DCI range). I realize that a DI would have given a better-looking DCP, but my 16mm negative was cut into A&B rolls (does this preclude a DI for the video/DCP end of things?) and I did not have the budget for a DI, anyway (and I wanted the film prints to be made through an entirely photochemical process).  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-12-2014 01:19 PM                     Carsten, I'm assuming a grading room will be pitch black, so there is no need to control the ambient. I agree that a grey screen will lower the brightness, but won't improve the contrast, do you agree? I know Mark would disagree, but NEC told me that to achieve DCI specs the 900 has to run two lamps. Why, I don't know. Just don't shoot on the messenger. Steve, I am not a massive lover of UHP lamps but I must say that after 12 months after my first calibration I found the NC900 still spot on - that seriously surprised me.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-12-2014 11:02 PM                     It would surprise me too since I didn't find it to be spot on even an hour after setting it.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-13-2014 06:17 AM                     something you need to account for is that UHP lamps take a while to stabilise when the wattage is changed. If you have, say, Flat at 80% and Scope at 100%, colours will drift for around 10 minutes (mostly during the first 2-3 minutes) after format change before they finally settle down.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-13-2014 06:24 AM                     I didn't move the power at all realizing that the color isn't stable between power settings in the first place.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-13-2014 07:19 AM                     bizarre. I'll check on the next 900.  |  IP: Logged Marc Porlier Film Handler Posts: 1 From: Boucherville, Qc, Canada Registered: Aug 2014 posted 08-13-2014 09:23 AM                        Salut Sylvain, Contact me directly via PM or email: marc.porlier@barco.com I am the Eastern Canadian rep and I can help you. I must tell you pricing is not what you expect  |  IP: Logged Sylvain Cossette Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Registered: Jun 2014 posted 08-13-2014 11:21 AM                        I'm waiting for aquote of the different models we talked about so i can know more clearly where i stand. The NEC NC900 seem to be good from reviews i've got but i do beleive also that i would get a better color consistency with a Xenon lamp on the long term (we do have the equipement to calibrate those). Thank for the info on the lamp Steve, altough it's only for the bigger model, could be usefull. @Scott Not a expert when it come to film transfert but i think the wolkflow would have been to telecine straight to DPX full range and do the DCP from those thus minimizing the conversion. The line is a bit blurred when it comes to definition, but a DI usualy involve only digital process (shot on digital camare->grading->DCP (no film at all). @Marc Salut, i'll send you an email today.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-13-2014 12:31 PM                     quote: Marco Giustini Steve, I am not a massive lover of UHP lamps but I must say that after 12 months after my first calibration I found the NC900 still spot on - that seriously surprised me. Pretty much what I have found too, it is also what NEC told me I wold find. Running two lamps they really do not drift. Loose one lamp and change it then you absolutely have to re-calibrate. These UHP's do require about a two or three minute warm up time to be back where you set it. I have customers at well over 2K hours on them now and color space is still the same. The worse down side of the NC900 is that the lamp current likely will not go down low enough for a small screen size. You would have to use a Schneider or Tiffen ND filter on the lens or an iris to get scope and flat levels to match... I have one site running on one lamp and it's at about 980 hours last I checked. I will be curious to check that site and will be in the very near future. I really expect to find about the same there... Also, lamp failures have ceased to be a problem and all the lamps I had fail were either replaced or credited 100% under warranty. Another Technician mentioned to me that Sony uses almost the exact same Ushio mercury lamp in their projectors and had the exact same failure issue with the lamps. So it was something Ushio related there. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-13-2014 01:44 PM                     I was using one lamp on mine - did not know about using two lamps and anyway it would have been way too bright with two lamps. Sylvain, the equipment to calibrate a Xenon is the same needed to calibrate a UHP.  |  IP: Logged Sylvain Cossette Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Registered: Jun 2014 posted 09-03-2014 04:02 PM                        Still in the upgrade process. Being offer different choice for the screen, was wondering if there is a incidence in the quality of the reproduction/distribution of the colors between different material/surface type?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 09-03-2014 04:36 PM                     Not really. You will want a matte white screen. Small color deviations will be calibrated. In my opinion, you should wait with the screen qualification until you finally have chosen projector/light source, hence light level. On such a small screen, you will most likely need a grey screen to achieve acceptable light levels. I recently installed an NC900 on a 3m Flat/4m CS white screen and it was still to bright even with a single lamp at 90% (75% is the lowest, but the lamps will go down early if operated at that setting). Maybe the Barco 8Sx has an option for a smaller aperture plate. That would bring brightness down and increase contrast. You could still try to defocus the lamp, however, not too much because uniformity could suffer, too. What hardware/interface/signal type do you use to playout graded signals from the grading workstation? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Sylvain Cossette Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Registered: Jun 2014 posted 09-04-2014 01:07 PM                        Alright, thanks for the info Carsten. If one were to use a Christie with a 1.4kW lamp, is there a technical way of knowing the distance needed to acheive the ideal brightness? The signal for the grading will be HD-SDI comming from a Blackmagic DeckLink 4K Extreme card.  |  IP: Logged

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