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Author Topic: Cinema Sound Processor in Media Block? Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 02-20-2016 02:08 AM                     I agree with rest of you guys, just, don't get why somebody did not think of this untill now.....they did integrate all....so...  |  IP: Logged Magnus Eriksson Expert Film Handler Posts: 121 From: Stockholm, Hägersten, Sweden Registered: Jan 2011 posted 02-20-2016 05:12 AM                     quote: Brad Miller I can't wait for that IMB/auditorium lighting dimmer combo Integrate this! /M.E.  |  IP: Logged Pietro Clarici Expert Film Handler Posts: 136 From: Foligno (PG) Italy Registered: Sep 2008 posted 02-20-2016 03:03 PM                        If it were 100% reliable and substantially cheaper than the available options, I'd like to use something like that to set up what I call a nanoplex: very small theaters with a boothless setup, a single IMS/processor board and networked active 5.1 audio, basically removing every other device outside of projectors and speakers. But it's a very specific (and possibly dumb) application, and a couple of very big "if"s.  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 02-20-2016 04:43 PM                        I'm going to go against the grain here, and say why wouldn't you do this? An IMB is a special-purpose computer doing digital signal processing. If the IMB dies, the show is over. So the IMB is absolutely critical to the show. The sound processor (a modern sound processor!) is also a special-purpose computer doing digital signal processing. If it dies, then really, a show without sound is not a show, so it too is critical to show operation. Because these two things are effectively in series, and both are critical, then the possibility of a lost show multiplies by the failure rate of the two components. In addition to the two critical failure points, there is also a bunch of circuitry involved in transporting the AES streams from the IMB to the processor, which can also fail. Since there are two boxes doing the same thing (digital signal processing) putting the audio DSP routines on the IMBs processing resources makes the overall system more reliable, as there is only one critical device whereas before there were two, and all the intervening gubbins is lost. The next thing to do is to use an Ethernet based audio protocol, to get the audio out of the IMB over dual-path redundant Ethernet, and have each amplifier get its audio over the Ethernet. Today that might use the Dante protocol, but tomorrow it would probably be AES67. Going digital audio to the amplifiers over a redundant Ethernet path gets rid of a truckload of single points of failure, and will again tend to make the overall system more reliable. The only downside to audio-in-the-IMB is that today's processors are a nice place to plug in non-sync and alternative content. So compared to today's IMBs, the IMB might need to sprout a couple of RCA jacks for the non-sync, extract embedded audio out of HDMI, and perhaps more sensibly, allow AES67 audio inputs.  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 02-21-2016 04:02 PM                     Today's board to do everything that does CP750 you can pack in size of doremi DA converter AUD-D2A.....since, you would not need any control for it, and only input is digital from ICMP itself, and some NS from outside.....ICMP would do all controll or ICP....whatever designers imagine. So i would not be suprised that as Marco said in near future they add extra PCB somewhere in middle of ICMP boards.....  |  IP: Logged Anders Nordentoft-Madsen Film Handler Posts: 57 From: Valby, Denmark Registered: Aug 2005 posted 03-02-2016 05:06 AM                        Well we are in the process of doing a 6-plex (almost done), and are using Q-sys for the sound system. 3 screens pr core with redundancy (plus redundancy on the Q-LAN network) Because of this we have gotten rid of the sound rack entirely, putting everything in the projector pedestal. Since each amplifier has 4 analog inputs, we have plenty of inputs to feed external sound sources. The Q-sys software are really fantastic enabling us to do almost anything we want. Next step would be to have the audio steam with AES67 so we can get rid of all the cat 7 cables running the AES signal from the servers to the cores (all the orange network cables in the first picture) and a core with more total audio channels, but that is for the future hopefully - Anders  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2016 06:42 AM                     Your Q-Sys layout looks pretty cool! Do you have any booth monitors on site? Do you have the ability to monitor the actual audio besides in the theatre? I also like the "Dolby Fader" module with a 0-10 scale!  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 03-02-2016 08:41 AM                     Really cool! The 'downside' of such solution is that not everybody would be capable of servicing/tweaking it. It gives unlimited possibilities in terms of sound EQ, routing, monitoring and troubleshooting though. I'm thinking of someone doing a sound EQ in screen 1 while screen 2 and 3 are playing. I know it can be done but I would feel a little scared in case you did something wrong (i.e. push a new design and the whole system restarts!)  |  IP: Logged Jay Wyatt Film Handler Posts: 33 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2015 posted 03-02-2016 11:46 AM                    Nice designs Anders! quote: Marco Giustini The 'downside' of such solution is that not everybody would be capable of servicing/tweaking it. True to an extent. The QSys designer lets you create simplified designs called UICs that go on touch screens or tablets. So you could replicate all the functionality of the knobs and buttons of a traditional sound processor and throw it on a device in the booth. quote: Steve Guttag Do you have the ability to monitor the actual audio besides in the theatre? You can 'probe' any individual point in the signal path (or sum all channels to mono) and send it to a mini speaker in the booth. This may require an IO-22 depending how many extra IO is available in the QSYS core.  |  IP: Logged Anders Nordentoft-Madsen Film Handler Posts: 57 From: Valby, Denmark Registered: Aug 2005 posted 03-02-2016 12:15 PM                        Yes, the booth monitor is the big black speaker on the wall with the blue diode, it's kinda overkill but we got them cheap The little screen next to the barco touch screen is the local screen interface to q-sys, it has sound format selection and volume control on one page Monitor control on the next: And screen light control on the next... Also to come (not yet done) virtual mixer (from 4 external XLR's comming from the screen), Config page with the ability to save preset volume per sound format, screen music player controls (local or site global) and info page with info about AES lock ect. The Dolby fader is done i LUA script and is goes up to 11!! Why? Because we can Doing EQ is quite nice, for this design we did the "CAL" page. That makes it a lot easier than before. Yes saving a design while running a movie in the other screens is not a good idea, the core needs to compile at that would cut the sound in all other auditoriums running on that core. - Anders  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2016 03:28 PM                     Very nice indeed! Did you do a monitor mix button or can one merely choose what they want in the mix? Oh...might I ask if there is a matrix decoder module in Q-SYS to deal with the pesky 2.0 sources?  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 03-02-2016 04:10 PM                     Don't think there is and this is in fact a good point: how do you deal with HDMI/Blu Ray/consumer sound on a QSYS?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2016 04:36 PM                     I'd think just with appropriate inputs (analog or digital). And if they have DPA-Q amps, they have (4) inputs into the system built in. So how are you liking the Barco ICMP? Also what are you using for local touchscreens?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2016 06:37 PM                     Q-SYS is awesome. It's the most flexible and best sounding processor on the market. But no it doesn't have any sort of matrix decoder. I really wish it did. The way the system itself is designed, it can always be added by QSC at some point. I am NOT a fan of using the amplifier analog inputs for critical audio. It's fine to inject a microphone or preshow audio or even surround channels into the system, but I always install an input card INTO the Core for the stage channels. If an amp dies, you don't want it taking out your stage channels. If the Core should die, well it's dead anyway. I am also not a fan of using one Core to do multiple auditoriums. It might save a tiny bit of money, but look at the cost of the entire building to put that into perspective.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-03-2016 12:28 AM                     Q-Sys is a great system with great potential. I think it would be great if QSC would open up the platform a little so third parties could build extensions for it. In that case, somebody could develop a matrix decoder which could be loaded into your Core. Right now, to achieve this you would have to hook up an analog device which takes a whole bunch of analog inputs and outputs. For multi-theater setups, in order to achieve some kind of fail-over redundancy in the core setup, it would really help if you could replace the discrete AES signals with AES67 or CobraNet, so you could route that part over Ethernet. Obviously, you're introducing new SPOFs here. Although it's quite trivial to create a redundant Ethernet network, it's not like they cannot fail. A single misbehaving or misconfigured switch can bring down your network in an instant, despite all the redundancy and throw all your rooms into silence.  |  IP: Logged

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