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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: Dolby releases new software 2.8.11 for DCP2000/2K4 and ShowVault servers
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 12-24-2016 01:32 PM
quote: Steve Guttag
I would say that the intersection of 5-screen channel theatres and those that have only 8-channels worth of inputs in their audio processor are very small, if not zero.
Hmm ... are you sure?
If a theatre has five stage channels, that is probably because it wants to play 70mm. The number of DCPs with five stage channel audio (i.e. a signal on channels 9 and 10) is tiny. In almost three years of working with digital cinema, I can only recall having encountered two, and that's working for a group of three theaters that shows almost exclusively arthouse, archival and re-release content. Almost all the five stage channel titles I've shown have been 70mm (either mag or DTS), plus a tiny handful of 8-track SDDS prints, and those two DCPs.
We now have AP20s as the primary audio processor in all three houses: this has 16 channels of AES input. However, half of those are used for DCP audio and the other half for DTS film audio (the 8-channel analog inputs are fed by CP200s for all other film sound).
So to enable us to play both five stage channel mix and modern 7.1 DCPs, we have to have two hardware dongles that juggle the AES pinouts from the media block, and physically swap the appropriate one in depending on which two channels on the DCP we want going into 7 and 8 on the AP20. As these take the form of DB25 to RJ45 converters with the pins in the appropriate slots, it's not difficult to do, but given the limitations of the AP20, it's all we can do. I don't know if it's possible to get an add-on card for the AP20 to give us more AES input channels, and if so how much they cost (investigating this is on the never ending "to do" list): if so, we could do away with the dongles and accomplish everything with channel mapping in the AP20 profiles, because we'd then be able to take all 16 DCP channels in, permanently. But at the moment, we're channel-limited.
My point is that I suspect that many if not most of the theatres that are wired for, and actually play five stage channel mixes regularly, probably won't have more than 8 AES input channels to play with exclusively for DCP audio.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 12-24-2016 03:18 PM
The AP20 is standard with 16 channels of AES. The 8-channel version is the low-cost option. You have 8-channels of analog. So a CP200 or like processor could come in on the 8-channel analog (L, LC, C, RC, R, Ls, Rs, SW)
With the 16 channel AES inputs, you can route what is coming off of a DCP in which way you want.
I know in my 5-screen channel theatres, we have used products like the QSC DCP300 to bring the film sound in analog and the DCP comes in on the two AES connectors for the full 16-channels to be used as needed, per format.
If you want something to scratch your head over...check out QSC's new DPM100 processor AES 1 is channels 1-8 BUT 7/8 are not for HI/VI...they have a separate input for them. AES 15/16. It is another RJ45 but only pair 4 are connected and you need to get HI/VI to them. So think about that. If you have an IMB that only has RJ45s, there is no clean way to run the cables. you will need to break the signals at one end and put them in the "other" connector...or depend on someone like Odyssey to make a hardware solution...thereby defeating part of the ease of using CAT cable. I wish they had just used a DB25 with all of the channels on that 1-8 and 15/16 on the standard pinout (Dolby's, not that goofy, never standardized, "DCI" thingy that Doremi and Ultra called out). This way, if you make your cables, you have an easy solution. If you want to use RJ45s there are several sources of RJ45 to DB25 connectors for cheap and Odyssey can save the day again, as usual.
Adam, the idea on the SMPTE scheme is that channels would be uniform by name, not by anyone's preferred pinout. When mastering content, Left is left is left and it will "find" the right hole to come out of on the mediablock.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 12-27-2016 10:16 AM
quote: Steve Guttag
However, had the industry not waffled around on it, the problem would have never presented itself. LC/RC have also migrated from 7/8 to 9/10. And then rumble seats have jumped on 13.
Agreed completely; the existing DCI channel allocations are not obvious or intuitive. So we've got to try to work with an imperfect standard, and one that isn't the same as other multi-channel mapping schemes (e.g. consumer BD/HDMI players, which put 7.1 left rear and right rear on 7 and 8, or DTS 8-track), which creates its own set of issues when trying to play DCPs, film audio and alternative content, all going into the same main audio processor.
quote: Steve Guttag
With the 16 channel AES inputs, you can route what is coming off of a DCP in which way you want.
Only if you have the luxury of being able to use all 16 of those channels for DCP audio, which we don't, and which I'd speculate many of the houses that have and use five stage channels don't (because apart from immersive audio formats, most of the five stage channel content out there is either 70mm or SDDS film). If you only have eight of them for the DCP server, then if you want to play 5.1 plus the HI/VI commentaries, 7.1, and a five stage channel mix, you've got to find a way to multipurpose 7 and 8 - either hardware (crossing over wires in the connectors) or by channel mapping in the DCP server.
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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 12-27-2016 10:30 AM
On use of full range tracks for HI/VI, we have an option in the JSD-60 (and, if I remember correctly, in the upcoming firmware release of the JSD-100) that pulls VI from the LFE track with a 200Hz HPF. We don't yet have the option in the CMS-2200 to put VI on the same output as LFE with a 200Hz HPF, but we SHOULD get to that. Then, with locally generated HI, you have 16 channels available for auditorium audio.
On using AES/EBU outputs for data (such as Atmos FSK sync or DBOX motion code), SMPTE has established a standard for binary sync over one channel of AES/EBU and an HTTP transfer protocol for auxiliary data (such as immersive sound, motion data, etc.). If the auxiliary data is encrypted, the server sends the data to the external device for decryption in the external device. This requires KDM delivery to the external device (for which there currently is not a transport standard) and the same security requirements that an IMB has (secure boundary, tamper protection, etc.), which gets expensive. I suspect the future is in rendering within the media block / server (as USL and GDC are currently doing).
Harold
Harold
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