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Author Topic: Series 3 Projectors Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-03-2017 11:33 AM                     So, the official distinction on "Series 3" is...? Who makes the ICP (or its functionality) If TI makes the ICP, it is a series 2, if the OEMs make the ICP, it is a series 3. So most of the NEC laser based projectors, including the NC1000C-A (HMI lamp based) are "series 3", the Christie CP2308 and CP4325 and, I guess, any projector of Barco that uses an Alchemy (ICMP). As I said, it isn't revolutionary, it is evolutionary. TI is going back to just being the DLP chip manufacturer (and other chips) but is progressively getting out of the PCB supply business. For me, the biggest news at the show in terms of PROJECTORs was Christie's CP4325. That is the game change projector that everyone else will need to follow. 4K, RGB laser, 25,000 lumens, vents to the environment, no external chillers, much higher contrast, relatively small and priced like a laser-phosphor of 25,000 lumens. Still in prototype but also clearly functional too (saw the demonstration). It hits ALL of the high points. That is the projector to keep an eye on.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-03-2017 03:06 PM                     looks like a 3P laser source?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-03-2017 04:21 PM                     Yeah. Christie doesn't do 6P. Their 6P systems are two 3P projectors.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-03-2017 05:02 PM                     and aren't we concerned about that?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 04-03-2017 05:53 PM                     Well they can't do spectral separation 3D that way. Some would say 3D is dead anyway. I don't know what their reasoning towards 3D is. Not much known yet. Maybe spectral separation 3D will be possible with a dual projector setup. But that would eat away from their 42LH sales... It's weird. There is hardly any market left (China, yes...), yet they all now launch so many new projectors. At the same time, the server market isn't moving a bit... Steve - the NC1000 uses a NEC proprietary ICP? I thought it was just an NC900 with a beefed up lamp section, using the same lamps as Sony and Barco. The DCI CTP cert suggests it is using a TI ICP. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 04-03-2017 06:28 PM                        quote: Carsten Kurz It's weird. There is hardly any market left (China, yes...), yet they all now launch so many new projectors. At the same time, the server market isn't moving a bit... My guess would be that there are still enough Series 1 projectors in the field to constitute an upgrade market big enough for the manufacturers to want to make a "leapfrog to Series 3" option attractive, especially if the rollout of SMPTE DCPs forces that issue. As for 3-D, there is no extra hardware needed to enable an RGB laser projector to do it, so you might as well offer the option, even if the market is dying. The manufacturers appear to be applying the Gillette business model to this one: they effectively give the projection capability away, but charge you up the bumhole for the glasses. We don't even have a set for our Barco DP4K-30L, yet: we were given a couple of pairs to test with when the projector was installed, but we'd need to buy 615 more for a full house to be able to see a 3-D DCP, which is a major financial obstacle. I gather that they're about $25 a pair, compared to $10 for the Dolby ones that work with their filter wheel system (but the filter wheel system itself costs around $15k). If Christie really does have an RGB laser projector that needs no external chiller, no dedicated air extraction, kicks out 25K lumens (so can light a screen up to around 50 feet across), will work with existing servers, Enigma boards and IMBs, and sells for around the same price as an entry level laser phosphor machine from Barco or NEC, then I agree with Steve that they do indeed have a game changer.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-03-2017 08:00 PM                     I think manufacturers really want to forget that Series 1 even exists. Stocking parts for them has to be a burden. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-03-2017 08:52 PM                     Remember, the last series 1 projector, except the DP3000, came off the line December 2009 so most of those are 10 years old or soon approaching. There were a ton of 2010 series 2 projectors so again, we are hitting the 7-year mark on some of those. We are starting to see projectors age and some items are starting to fail just from age. If the manufacturers didn't start with new designs, then they would be behind when the replacements are needed. You also have the issue that parts will become obsolete in a faster cycle than cinema. Note, Barco has changed their Cinema Controller Board, though it is backwards compatible. I cannot claim to have worked on an NEC NC1000C-A yet but by description, the ICP is now, at least, partially owned by NEC. If you look at all images of the NC1000C-A, you typically see a blank slot, a cinema controller board, a blank slot (with a mysterious power indicator) and the IMS2000 (or NEC's rebadged version of it). I've been told that there is no upgrade path for the NC900C-A to an NC1000 and that enough about it has changed, including the optics (light pipe).  |  IP: Logged Tom Bert Expert Film Handler Posts: 134 From: Belgium Registered: Apr 2010 posted 04-12-2017 10:25 AM                     On the original topic/question: the "Series" naming was a TI thing. The last in the series, "Series 3", covers the integration of ICP and IMB. Barco's ICMP was the first one to adopt it. We were just not that vocal in calling it Series 3. That is, a.o. other things, because the correct name should be "Series 3 electronics". All other things (engine, DMD's, ...) in any projector that calls itself Series 3, are very Series 2  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2017 12:31 PM                     Yes, I have a number of NC-2000 that have hit the 7 year mark. Time sure flies! My only failures in any NC-2000/32XX have been the router, and only the first version routers have failed. I have had a couple xenon supplies fail in NC-1200 but that was done under warranty. My highest failure numbers are of local switches. A cheap part by any standard, but can still shut a screen down until it is replaced. I have now had seven local switches fail in about the last year. No specific brand either... they just randomly fail. None of them involved a service call as none of them are managed type switches. Oddly no TMS switches have failed YET. I will get some of these failed switches to see exactly what has failed in them... would like to know if it is power supply failure or just random ports that failed on them. I did have a bunch of SMC switches that randomly dropped ports at one site and we junked all those switches. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 04-14-2017 06:37 AM                     With local/TMS/SMC switches you're referring to ethernet switches I suppose?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-14-2017 07:10 AM                     Yes. There are two networks for multiplex systems, basically local is the screen devices and tms is for tms content transfers. SMC is a brand of switch. Many brands of SOHO switches get used because they are much cheaper than the more reliable enterprise switches. Failures are not uncommon with these units. I don't know that any "name brand" switch is more or less reliable, we see a few failures every year with no major pattern.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 04-14-2017 07:29 AM                     The average multiplex usually has even more networks for other purposes, or at least it should have... (All properly segmented and firewalled, but in a real world...) But I'm still just a bit surprised that, after you spent so much on expensive projectors, servers and audio equipment, you will save a few hundred bucks and put in some SMC soho switch and not some big-brand managed ethernet switch that can be divided into VLANs on-demand. If I look at switch failures over the past years, practically all of them have been honkytonk Linksys, Sitecom, Sweex or whatnot switches, mostly put there by either customers themselves or some contractor that needed more ports. My experience with Dell PowerConnect wasn't all that rosy either. But none of the big brand switches like Cisco (the proper ones, not the relabeled Linksys ones), HP(E), Juniper or Brocade have failed on me. Personally, I really like HP ProCurve. They offer life-time warranty, are pretty affordable and even after about 15 years of using them, I've had just one single failure quite recently.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 04-14-2017 08:22 AM                     I used to think SMC was a solid brand, but I saw an amazing number of their switches (not the cheapest ones) fail in cinemas. I still believe in HP switches. I think their 'medium' range is affordable and reliable. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2017 10:00 AM                     quote: Marcel Birgelen With local/TMS/SMC switches you're referring to ethernet switches I suppose? Yes, but just the local switches at the projectors... No TMS switch failures and I have 42 TMS systems out there that I built... Waiting for the first one to croak any day now... quote: Dave Macaulay Many brands of SOHO switches get used because they are much cheaper than the more reliable enterprise switches. Actually that is entirely untrue. The rash of SMC switch failures I experienced were all Enterprise type managed switches!! These were in two complex's, but at least in the same town, so getting rid of them was quick. I also have managed switches at home and the bloody fans in them absolutely suck. They are noisy and fail quickly leading to other failure issues if not caught and replaced. When I replace fans in these switches they can usually be be replaced with quieter fans that give the same airflow, so at least you get rid of the whine. I will not install a switch if it has a bloody fan in it in movie theaters. The SMC's did not have fans... Those switches just randomly had ports die. There is really no need for managed local switches unless you have booth monkeys that like to tinker. I don't have that problem at any site, and some of my sites are so far away that being able to easily walk the customers through an issue and not having to log in to a stupid switch is a good thing. Managed switches are ok in a TMS though and a firewall is also ok, but not absolutely necessary in a small complex. Overall, switches pretty much suck on every level fmr the 49.00 ones up to the multi-thousand dollar switches. They are designed to only last so long. If they did last for ever the switch manufacturers would go out of business. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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