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Author Topic: Datasat Digital Entertainment acquired by ATI
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-28-2017 04:14 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
What broadcast equipment uses HDMI, other than cheap monitors and devices that output to monitors?
I guess that depends on your personal definition of 'broadcast'. Google for 'HDMI BROADCAST' and you will naturally find quite a few. Admittedly, every broadcast engineer would try to avoid HDMI if there is a choice for more robust interfacing. But you can't avoid it completely. And so we are seeing better gear to deal with HDMI in pro environments, EDID maintainers and range extenders probably being the first in this line.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/teranex

https://www.aja.com/family/ki-pro

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-28-2017 07:01 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I myself don't nor would you find any knowledgeable broadcast engineer that would consider either of those brands to be broadcast worthy. Both companies make poor man's version of much more expensive broadcast and film making gear.

Mark

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-28-2017 09:26 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The term "broadcast standard" or "broadcast quality" is in such widespread use that there is nothing even close to a universally understood definition. In many cases, the phrase is used in the marketing of high end consumer gear in order to claim that it is in some way "better" than cheaper competitors in the same market sector, in order to persuade the gullible to pay more for it. My favorite example of this is gold-plated, and/or fancy fabric covered HDMI wires that are sold for $50-100 each in elaborate packaging, adorned with claims that it'll give you a better picture and sound. It's digital, right? Either the ones and zeros will make it through the wire, or they won't. Try telling the people who buy these things that a $3.99 Amazon Basics one will do just as well, and the look on their faces will be priceless.

Same thing in the analog domain. I remember back in the 1990s giving a booth tour to a hi-fi nerd who wouldn't stop going on about his phono cartridge that cost five figures, etc. etc. He asked me what we used for speaker wire, to which I replied that it was regular, 13-amp (this was in England) mains cable. He couldn't have looked more horrified if I'd just told him that I enjoyed sodomizing horses! But surely I would "realize so much more potential" from the standard issue JBL power amps and speakers if we'd installed whatever cable he used in his "listening room" at about GBP50 a foot? No we wouldn't, I replied, and engineers who have investigated this very thoroughly concluded that these cables would deliver a minuscule audio quality gain (if any) for about 100x the price of the stuff we used.

And broadcasting itself can range from the small, volunteer run operation within my church to live stream its services (which uses plenty of HDMI connections) to NBC and Fox News, which probably wouldn't even buy a blank videotape or memory card that costs less than three figures.

The bottom line is that HDMI is fundamentally a consumer technology, the use of which, just like it did with 16mm, has crept into lower budget professional a/v operations over the years. I'm not sure that trying to define what "broadcast" means as an adjective to describe a/v gear is either possible or helpful.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-29-2017 03:55 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The term "broadcast grade" is as flexible as "enterprise grade" or "production grade", it's more marketing and emotion than something with a set of outlined specifications.

My mobile phone (the Galaxy S8, not my Blackberry [Wink] ) shoots better videos than any broadcast camera of a mere 15 years ago. Yes, there are plenty of other factors to what constitutes a good broadcast camera, but I guess the point is clear.

For me, *-grade is more an indication of the expected reliability than anything else. You'll see an increased convergence of "consumer" and "pro", simply because it's the only way to keep up with the fast pace in which technology is evolving.

You need only to look at DCI. Cinema technology used to be totally disjoint from almost anything else. It didn't even come close to what you had at home. It even was so disjoint from "broadcast", the conversion between formats was an art in itself.

Nowadays, we're using essentially the same stuff everybody else does. A cinema server is nothing other than some industry standard PC hardware with some task-specific interfaces. The projectors we use are the same digital projectors everybody else uses, with the differences only in the details.

BlackMagicDesign might be a "borderline" brand, yet they bought some companies you traditionally would find in professional production environments, including broadcast. Since broadcast isn't the fairyland it used to be and budgets are becoming increasingly tight, you'll see them and other "non-broadcast" brands making their way into the broadcast market.

quote: Leo Enticknap
Same thing in the analog domain. I remember back in the 1990s giving a booth tour to a hi-fi nerd who wouldn't stop going on about his phono cartridge that cost five figures, etc. etc. He asked me what we used for speaker wire, to which I replied that it was regular, 13-amp (this was in England) mains cable. He couldn't have looked more horrified if I'd just told him that I enjoyed sodomizing horses! But surely I would "realize so much more potential" from the standard issue JBL power amps and speakers if we'd installed whatever cable he used in his "listening room" at about GBP50 a foot? No we wouldn't, I replied, and engineers who have investigated this very thoroughly concluded that these cables would deliver a minuscule audio quality gain (if any) for about 100x the price of the stuff we used.
Well, what about $1000 Ethernet cables? Although, according to this review, the Amazon Bulk Cat5e cables are more euhm... musical.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 09-30-2017 12:12 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The scary thing is that there enough people with more money than sense out there who are willing to swallow the placebo pill and buy them, to keep manufacturers like this in business.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-30-2017 01:28 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't consider it scary. Anyone who is able to spend that money on these items isn't hurt by these spendings. Whenever I talk to these people, it is fairly obvious that they WANT it like that. Anything that can be proven is suspicious. Everything that is cheap is useless. It's their religion.

- Carsten

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 10-03-2017 08:24 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you happen to meet one of those audiocultists, let them tell you all about the benefits of connecting everything with cables that look like garden hoses and are more expensive per foot than an actual garden hose made from pure gold pressed latinum.

Then show them the DB25 connector on your audio processor and tell them... look, that's about 8 channels worth of ANALOG audio right there. Then tell him/her (most likely him) about the benefits of balanced interconnects. Then, indulge into your own sarcastic self, as you enjoy that look on his/her (still, most likely his) face.

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Sebastian Binz
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 11-01-2017 08:32 AM      Profile for Sebastian Binz   Email Sebastian Binz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am happy to report that a brand new AP20 showed up last week - it only took about 3.5 months.
Apparently Datasat is still able to deliver.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 11-01-2017 04:01 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great to know they at least still honor their commitments, though those kind of lead times are pretty much killing. Let's hope it was a temporary thing due to the change of management.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-19-2018 02:57 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A few days ago, a new software version for the AP20 went live. So, it looks as if there are people working still/again on it...

Meanwhile, the datasatdigital website at least refers to ATI now.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-19-2018 03:33 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I spoke with Dan Taylor at ICTA this week. It would appear that the Datasat brand is indeed going to be back in business. The AP20 badge will be retired in favor of the AP25. There is a distinction but I forgot what it was. They are filling their backorders now (and have been doing so). The AP20/AP25 is being made in USA.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-19-2018 04:34 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great news, thanks for the update!

- Carsten

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 01-20-2018 05:46 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carsten, is there a release note for the new SW?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-20-2018 07:12 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw the update on our AP20, so haven't received it as a file. I emailed Datasat Support last night for release notes, let's see...

It's only a minor version number bump.

I guess the AP25 will feature 4k or HDMI2.0. A 4k HDMI switcher board was already available for some time for the AP20, so I guess they'll make that a regular product.

But maybe there is even more. ISDCF is now calling for testing early SMPTE bitstreams for object based audio, hope that ATI/Datasat sets a foot into this area as well...

- Carsten

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Jonathan Jensen
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: Copenhagen V, Copenhagen/Denmark
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 04-04-2018 10:20 AM      Profile for Jonathan Jensen   Email Jonathan Jensen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There we go...

http://www.soundassociates.co.uk/manufacturers-datasat

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