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Author Topic: COCONUT OIL or not coconut oil
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-28-2002 02:16 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Canola is a genetically modified version of rape seed and rape seed is toxic

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-28-2002 03:14 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gracia dit: "I can't put the Topsit on it - or I will be sick to my stomach for hours, nor can I eat more than a few handfuls - or I will be sick to my stomach for hours."

Gracia, I think you may have the same sensitivity that I have. I think I've narrowed it down to the erucic acids (Lorenzo's oil) that are still present in small quantities in Canola.

This fellow has it about right. http://www.rogerkyoung.com/oil.html

FWIW, rapeseed oil was involved in a poisoning epidemic in Spain largely because a batch of it that had been denatured with aniline (for industrial use) got into the food supply. Common thought is that the byproducts of the denaturing were a cause of the over 500 deaths, and thousands of illnesses. Rapeseed oil is used as a food oil in India, and was in fact heavily used in Spain prior to the poisonings.

There are many issues with Canola and rapeseed. One of these may be that it is simply a "new" food that some people cannot tolerate. There has been some research that suggests the evolution of humans contained times when those who could not tolerate the changes in diet from fish and meat-eaters to a grain based diet simply died off, leaving only those who could at least partly tolerate the new diet to reproduce. Some people think this is somewhat reflected in the different blood types.

Whatever the cause, some of us have to go out of our way to avoid this oil.

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Gracia L. Babbidge
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 709
From: Bowdoin, Maine
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 05-29-2002 01:52 PM      Profile for Gracia L. Babbidge   Author's Homepage   Email Gracia L. Babbidge   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry - goodness! That link was a bit enlightening ... and alarming!

I have recently begun paying strict attention to what is actually in the foods that I consume. More and more I've been shocked at how much unnecessary crap is in so many things.
Almost makes me think that there is either one (very weird) conspiracy going on, else the general population is retarded!

*begin rant mode*
Taking a look at magazines, television, and movies, you see people that are amazingly thin - in some cases unnaturally so. 'Monkey see, monkey do.' Many people try to sttain the physique they have been conditioned to believe that they must have in order to have any worth. What I have obseverd is that one of the few forms of prejudice that is still socially acceptable is prejudice against people that are overweight. And this is continually fueled by the media in many forms. Yet, the average size (for women) is 14 - incidentally, Marilyn Monroe's size, and by current standards, that is considered to be 'overweight'. (Consider the fact that Ashley Judd is about a size 2!)
Now let's consider what we see in grocery stores. Crap, crap, and more crap - unhealthy junk foods galore, prepackaged nastiness that has to be heated up - all in bright eye-catching packaging, with misleading labels with false claims for healtful benefits - but all priced reasonably. Then that which actually is not unhealthy, including organic foods are all priced outrageously.
What message does that send? Eating right is expensive and time consuming, but eating unhealthily is cheaper, and faster ... and detrimental to that 'perfect body' people think that they need to attain.
It probably all comes down to someone wanting to make some cash over other people's agony... After all, if you destroy your health by what you eat - then you'll be up to your ears in medical bills!
What is going on in the world?
*end rant mode*

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 05-29-2002 02:00 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Iam going to start selling popcorn in my theater, however I have to use a hotair popper as no oil is allowed in Museum.......Am I doomed?

------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-29-2002 04:01 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jan, you don't have to pop on premises. You can buy pre-popped corn. At my first theatre in Vermont, the popcorn was popped by Par Products in Norwalk, Conn, and you guessed it, the customers were always saying how much better the corn was than that popped at other local theatres - even when it had been in storage for a month. There is a concept that many people, even within the industry, just don't grasp. The taste of "stale" popcorn comes from moisture much more than age. The starch, salt, and oil of popped corn will last for months without noticable degradation if kept dry and safe from insects and rodents. If you stop and think about the premium specialty corns sold pre-popped and in the fancy tins, you begin to realize the truth of this.

I wouldn't want popcorn oil in the air at a museum either, and I don't think I'd be eager to allow dry popping, which adds moisture and some components of the corn to the air.

Gracia, I've had to pay more and more attention to food components as my sensitivities have increased. Your rant is on target. Companies are looking to increase their bottom line and consumers are looking to reduce theirs. Our attitude towards food in the U.S. is lousy.


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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 05-29-2002 07:15 PM      Profile for Steven Gorsky   Author's Homepage   Email Steven Gorsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After doing some internet searching, I was unable to find proof of some of the things mentioned on the link provided by Jerry. I did find out there have been many urban myths/legends going around about canola oil. I also found a Washington Post story about some of these - see here. I do wish I could find a legit study on this though.

Anyway, I prefer coconut oil for popping corn.

Steven Gorsky


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-29-2002 11:43 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven, I'm very glad that you did some quick independent checks.

The overall thrust of the site that I cited was that this oil was developed and heavily promoted by Canadian farmers and processors, and that Canola still has some euricic acid in it (admitted by the canola processors). It is apparent that the site author has strong reservations about that, and has provided guides on where to look in attempting to verify his statements. Many of his statements are obviously speculative, but not any more so than those of the canola producers.

I don't think I would be as strongly against the oil (canola) if it didn't affect me directly. I AM one of those "anecdotal people" that the Washington Post author casually dismisses. Reporters saying that there is no scientific evidence of harm from canola can repeat it until they are blue in the face, but they are talking through their (to be polite) hats. This stuff can literally make me sick, to the point that I can't work for a day or more. Sometimes the effect is greater than other times, and I suspect the euricic acid content and amount of rancidity are factors.

I'm well aware that people like Gracia and myself might be in a minority, but our mere presence proves that this oil is NOT a good thing for all people. From the research that I have done, I am of the further opinion that there are NO extraordinary health benefits to the commonly marketed canola shortening which has been hydrogenated to reduce rancidity and the fishy odor.

The WP author focused on an urban legend story that anyone with a modicum of critical thinking skills could dismiss, then used that story to "prove" guilt by association, and infer that other comments about Canola were equally untrue. Frankly, such reporting is sophomoric lazy journalism unworthy of even a college newspaper, much less the Washington Post. Other compaints about canola are out there, and there is a real concern over the general suitability and even safety of the product, yet the reporter you cite wrote an article on the subject that has less depth than the frosting on a twinkie.
www.snopes2.com is generally considered to do reasonable research. They did a bit on canola, which a quick search of their site will find. (This article jumps to a number of conclusions - for instance rapeseed oil wasn't used in the US before 1974, it is true, but the reasons are probably less because of heart lesions in lab animals and more because of the stink of the rancid oil making it less popular than more easily obtained cottonseed, corn, and other oils.)

Even the organization that pushed the whole canola craze onto the backs of theatres doesn't like the way it is used in theatres. This quote is directly from their own website:
"Up to a quarter of all theaters use "healthier" canola oil. Canola may be lower in saturated fat, but we gagged when we saw how much cholesterol-raising trans fat it had. Why so much?

Because the multiplex banner is wrong. Theaters are popping in partially hydrogenated canola shortening, not canola oil. Oils have no trans. Shortenings -- even liquid ones -- are usually full of it. "
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/popcorn.html

I've ripped their "science" on this subject totally apart before, and I'm not going to repeat myself. Other people are catching on that the center for (cough) science in the public interest is often less than truthful. For another opnion on their tactics, see: http://www.cspinot.com/

I can't think of any good reason for theatres to still be using canola "oil." I also would be willing to bet good money that much of the "heart healthy" canola oil sold in stores not only still contains trace amount of euricic acid, which can cause heart lesions in lab animals, but is hydrogenated as well, increasing the amount of trans-fatty acids that are the current "bad guys" to the cardiovascular crowd. In short,... we've been had.

Those are my opinions, draw your own conclusions after checking my sources and doing your own research.

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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 05-30-2002 12:39 AM      Profile for Steven Gorsky   Author's Homepage   Email Steven Gorsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, thanks for the links. When I had gone searching for articles before, I found "reports" of illnesses that were supposedly linked to canola oil. Unfortunately, some of my family members suffer these symptoms - one "report" mentioned it could cause thyroid problems, amongst other things. Their doctors think it could be some kind of enviromental problem, but we have been unable to determine the cause. So, when things like this come up we try to find out more details (i.e. some kind of detailed study) to see if it is a possible cause. Some of things that I had found were similar to stories people had with aspartame, so I've been sceptical.

Steven Gorsky


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-30-2002 10:17 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven, I've become convinced that mainstream doctors are just too busy with the easily diagnosed problems, and too time limited because of the insurance industry. The result is that anything even slightly out of the ordinary that doesn't appear immediately life threatening quickly gets referred or filed as depression or chronic fatigue and shrugged off.

I was talking with a nurse recently, who said that the wife of a microbiologist co-worker had been ill for months with intestinal problems, until her husband began using his skills to investigate the bacteria in her gut. He found the problem that doctors had missed, presented a doctor with the proof and told him point blank to start the proper treatment. If the woman had not had a microbiologist for a husband, she might still be looking for answers (or dead).

Email me if you want to discuss things in more detail.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-30-2002 11:29 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Genetically altered foods are a big concern and I have been concered over the lack of packaging info in Canada on geneticly modified food compared to europe .

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-29-2002 08:43 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like you might not have to worry about knowing any longer, Gordon. All of canola may be contaminated.

CBC news story

From the story:

WINNIPEG - There is confirmation of something canola farmers have been saying for years: that genetically modified canola is popping up where it wasn't planted and where it isn't wanted.

An Agriculture Canada study suggests the problem is in the seeds. More than half of the seed samples tested showed some level of genetically modified presence. The study's authors conclude that means almost every canola field planted with conventional seed will contain some genetically modified plants.


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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-01-2002 10:42 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lou Ana coconut oil IS the way to pop your corn. Yeah, it's a heart attack that you can taste, but if I had to pay for popcorn I'd want something that tasted full, nothing with butter imitatiors, just something that gives you your money's worth. Somehow I just can't see spending the same four dollars for a bag of some yellow trash that will appease yuppie health nuts.

Okay, so I'm a romantic about it, but your popcorn should be giving customers an authentic experience that they don't get in a bag of microwave popcorn. I saw far fewer bags of smuggled Act II at my old theater that used coconut oil (and had a large bag at $3.50)

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