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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Topic: Bad Movies not the only cause for box office decline
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-08-2005 07:30 PM
Oh, I don't know about that. There are some good actors...Tom Hanks comes to mind immediately...back to back Oscars is a tough one in ANY decade and his performances are normally about as good as you can hope to expect for the part. Heck, he was good even in Bachelor Party.
John Cusack does a pretty good job. Michael Keaton is one I like. Mary Stuart Masterson is pretty darn good though not as prolific as the other stars I mentioned.
Going up a generation or so you pick up the Robert DiNiros, Gene Hackmans...etc and though I might take some flak on this one...Richard Dryfuss...who has done some incredible work with Mr. Holland's Opus being down right perfect.
However...no actor can pull a piece of crap out of the toilet. the story has to be there first.
Come on...how many films were released this year that did not have a sequal/prequal associated with it or just a remake of film?
I've seen theatres sell out to "March of the Penguines" this summer...come on...this is a "Wonderful World of Disney" type movie but it is considered great in this idea starved summer.
However...all of the above being said...I maintian that the quality of presenations offered to today's audience is way below that of what I grew up with. Sure there is 5.1 sound but so what? We had 6-track sound 1/2 a century ago for those films that warranted it. I'll take a good MONO mix of yesteryear over the relatively uninspired 5.1 mixes of today.
I don't see "shows" anymore...there is nothing special about the theatre experience, except the audience factor, which has as many negatives today (phones, not curtesy, kicking chairs, talking...etc) as it has positives.
Stadium seating is NOT what people wanted...good sight-lines are what people wanted...they just didn't get that until they got stadium seating because of how exhibitors built their rotten theatres.
You throw your tacky slides up (for the most part...I'm sure there is someone out there that presents them with class) without masking for them and making them part of your show...you omit the curtains for no good reason despite charging a premium for seeing a film in a theatre. There is no reason preshows should not be included with a proper curtained show.
You add 20+ minutes of advertising after the lights go down...people don't want to pay for it and are offended to have to pay for "that" privilege.
The last time I ever saw a film that was tack sharp from beginning to end was at the Goldwyn theatre for Academy...oh yeah they have projectionists and the name of the game is showing the movie, not selling concessions.
Are the problems of the exhibitor all their fault? Absolutely not! The print quality is horrible...it is great we have Kodak's Vision premier stock but it is printed without step printing intermediates so the image is soft and shaky...regardless of who's projector you like and what lenses you bought (and if they are not Schneider or ISCO...you are not seeing the best the film has to offer...as a rule of thumb with rare exceptions). The exhibitor does not get encouraged to put on a superior show...the studios take the bulk of the boxoffice...how can you blaim them for emphasizing the concessions...that is about the only thing is truely theirs (and the studios have been trying to find a way to get a cut of that too).
To me, I'm embarassed by almost every film I see in a theatre...either the story and or the show was suboptimal. But what the heck, I'm a technical guy and can't help but seeing the flaws...to the average joe (or sally)...they just don't see anything that is so great about going to the theatre anymore...their home is always more convienent and cheaper and in increasing ways...superior in quality.
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Richard C. Wolfe
Master Film Handler
Posts: 250
From: Northampton, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-08-2005 10:42 PM
I have been watching and reading this topic, here and elsewhere, and like everyone else trying to determine why the industry as a whole is having a soft year.
First, allow me to say that I during my 40 years in this business have seen many of these downturns, only to see the pendulum swing back again to business better then ever. Since 1970 there have been at least 8 downturns. Each time business returned stronger then before.
I admit that I don't have the answer as to why so many of you are hurting. It just seems that a theatre such as mine should be having even a more difficult time this year. I have an old single screen theatre built in 1920, and remodeled in the art deco style in 1933, and maintained exactly that way today. It's in a small town of about 10,000 people, although on the edge of a metropolitan area of 700,000. It's subrun, and often with the shortening windows to video and DVD, I am still playing films when the are released to those media. I do not have stadium seating. While I have Dolby surround stereo, it's not digital. I try very hard to present a good presentation within the limitations of my financial situation. There is much I would like to do to improve my theatre, and the technical aspects of the operation, but money is limited and many things have to wait.
I do however, try to make the best with what I have, and to take what I have and make it a unique theatre going experience, something totally different then what is found at the local megaplexes. I have posted here many times about my management philosophies... the use of stage curtains, colored lighting effects, old time uniforms for the staff, cartoons, the theatre pipe organ... I could go on and on. Many people, maybe most think I'm out of step with the times, and maybe I am.
Even though I'm subrun, I'm still playing the same product that all of you are, just a little later. If it's the product to blame, I should be experiencing the same rate of decline. Other then my old time management style, the only other things I do different is that I have low prices... $3.00/$2.00 for tickets, and refreshment prices where nothing costs more then $2.50 for the largest item. I also run NO preshow screen advertising.
If I lived in a world of my own, and never visited this and other related websites, or read the trade press, or the public media for that matter, I wouldn't be aware that there was a slump going on. This year has been very good for me thus far. I'm 8% ahead of last year, and last year was a very good year.
Whether or not, my way of doing things has anything to do with my theatres success... one thing is for sure. I'm not going to change anything. As the old saying goes... if it's not broke, don't fix it.
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 08-08-2005 10:58 PM
quote: Brad Allen
And we simply don't have ANY actors today...
should have added "new" behind the word "actors". Then, this will make the statement more definite.
But, like I mentioned, with Hollyrock making movies geared to the young adult, the young adult don't need to be given anything really special. All they care is to goto a movie that'll make them laugh-no matter how bad the story and plot is.
Or, goto a movie that has CGI's, action, explosions, etc. I.E. - a "no-brainer" movie...and these are easy to make.
Plus, Hollywhore knows of the overseas market and how valuable some of the countries really depend on movies made in the U.S.
Some countries will kill for any form of entertainment from the States-no matter how good or bad it can be.
So, basically what we see and think is so-so to almost crap, it's a seller overseas.
-Monte
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-11-2005 01:27 PM
quote: Richard C. Wolfe
I do however, try to make the best with what I have, and to take what I have and make it a unique theatre going experience, something totally different then what is found at the local megaplexes. I have posted here many times about my management philosophies... the use of stage curtains, colored lighting effects, old time uniforms for the staff, cartoons, the theatre pipe organ... I could go on and on. Many people, maybe most think I'm out of step with the times, and maybe I am.
Richard,
It sounds like you are doing everything right, and are being rewarded as a result. People respond to showmanship, and it sounds like your customers know where to find it.
Sure, there may be other factors at play, such as lower ticket prices, but you also have the challenges associated with playing movies closer to their DVD release.
Before theaters complain about poor business, they need to look at successes such as yours, and then they need to look at themselves to evaluate whether anything could be improved, before they start whining about how it's someone else's fault that business is slow.
The industry needs more theaters with attitudes and approaches such as yours. Unfortunately, I think you are part of an endangered species...
Keep up the good work, and if you ever want to expand, we have a 4-plex near here that's sitting empty. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Scott
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Robert Harrison
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 239
From: Harwood Heights, Illinois, USA
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 08-11-2005 06:06 PM
The following is an imaginary interview with Martin "Bud" Buckpasser of Bloes Cineshack:
RH: How did you become interested in the exhibition industry? What do you love about movies?
BUCKPASSER: You know, whenever I'm asked this question, I always paraphrase that classic line from "Gone With the Wind"..."Frankly, I don't give a damn...about movies, that is." Now, admissions and, most important, popcorn sales, that's what I'm talking about!
RH: If you don't care about movies, then why has your company spent millions of dollars on stadium seats and digital sound?
BUCKPASSER: You think I wanted to? I'm just keeping up with the Joneses. It's like a mantra now..."Stadium seats and digital sound! Stadium seats and digital sound!"
RH: That would explain a lot.
BUCKPASSER: Hell, that explains it all! American Multi Crackerbox started building multiplexes, so we all did! But then, after we copied them, they turn around and build even bigger places and closed the little ones. I tell you, it's the theatre owners' version of the Biggest Dick Contest.
RH: Don't you ever do anything expressly for the customers' benefit?
BUCKPASSER: Shit, no. If we did, we wouldn't be getting all this grief from the ADA, the American Dumbass Association!
RH: You mean, of course, the Americans with Disablities Act?
BUCKPASSER: Call it what you will, it's a pain in the ass. No sooner do we spend all that money on stadium seats, do they start harping about wheelchair spaces. We have 'em!
RH: Yeah, right in front of the screen!
BUCKPASSER: Look...if we have to start redesigning for one minority group, and people in wheelchairs are a minority, the next thing you know we'll have to start running movies in Spanish for the border hoppers.
RH: That's a really harsh attitude, don't you think? I mean, I never wrote any letters to the theatre owners begging for stadium seats. And I know there weren't any senior citizens clamoring for it. They all like to sit in the back of the auditorium and they HATE climbing stairs. Yet, with stadium seats, the back of the house is all the way up the stairs!
BUCKPASSER: Again, you are speaking of a minority, a minority that, I might add, is too cheap to buy any concessions. This is a business. It must make money and we can't accomplish that by catering to our customers' wants and needs.
RH: So, does that mean that digital sound wasn't about the customers, either?
BUCKPASSER: Hey, all I know is that somebody thinks it's written in the Bible that every time Dolby or whoever invents a new sound system, we have to install it. I had thought that the industry learned its lesson back in the early 70's. Theatres back then quit fooling around with large guage film and stereo sound. I mean, if it was okay to see "The Godfather" and "Jaws" in mono, why do we need 9 channels of sound for "Harry Potter?"
RH: People didn't have home theatres back then.
BUCKPASSER: What's your point?
RH: You have to compete, don't you? Just as the theatres did in the 50's with television. Give them that something extra.
BUCKPASSER: How the hell can we do that when Dolby keeps seeling the home market the same stuff they sell us? And cheaper, too?
RH: Perhaps a return to some true showmanship?
BUCKPASSER: We're giving people more than ever before. For instance, back in the day, do you remember ever getting a "pre-show?"
RH: I remember looking at some beautiful curtains instead of adverstising, which is all those pre-shows are really about, whether they be slides or video.
BUCKPASSER: Advertising helps pay the bills.
RH: Isn't that what the customers do?
BUCKPASSER: Frankly, no. A lot of 'em sneak in food and drinks, ripping us off.
RH: I think that most people would agree that the rip-off is the price of popcorn and such at your concession stands.
BUCKPASSER: The prices we charge for snacks are still cheaper than other venues, such as arenas and other places with captive audiences.
RH: Captive audiences? That's a curious term.
BUCKPASSER: Well, it just means...
RH: I know what it means...they can't get food any cheaper once they are in your building!
BUCKPASSER: Now, be fair. We lose a lot of money to the film companies.
RH: Oh, yes. That hoary old industry excuse.
BUCKPASSER: What excuse? They make a lot of money off of us.
RH: That's because they make the movies that people come to see. Do you think people would come just to see the ads?
BUCKPASSER: I wish! I'll tell you, though, that what I have seen in all my years is that people come for different reasons according to their age. For instance, young kids just want to go see what the bathroom looks like every five minutes. Older kids just want a place to screw around in. Senior citizens only come to complain about anything and everything. And ALL age groups spend so much time on their cell phones, that I'm surprised that they see more than 10 actual minutes of any film they attend. And that 10 minutes is usually the end credits. For some reason, those credits are like a religion to some.
RH: Well, if your presentations weren't so lousy, maybe folks would actually watch the films. Perhaps if you switch to digital projection, that will grab their attention.
BUCKPASSER: Oh, don't get me started! I'd like to kill that George Lucas! He started that 70mm revival with the first series of "Star Wars" films. We put in a ton of 70mm projectors. Then, his buddy Spielberg starts with the DTS and swears off 70mm! Now them boogers want us to switch ALL our projectors to digital video instead of film. Well, you know what? If Lucas and Spielberg want us to switch to video, they can pay for it themselves! They got more money than I do.
RH: Did it ever occur to you or any of the other theatre chain owners that if you would quit playing what you call "The Biggest Dick Contest," building screens, screens and more screens, that you might be able to afford to run a profitable business?
BUCKPASSER: Hey, when things get TOO bad, we always have that back-up plan called "merging." Bloes and Cineshack Opium used to be competitors. As were American Multi Crackerbox and Generic Cinema before they merged.
RH: Yeah, about that? Maybe there needs to be another consent decree type of law that would eliminate that practice.
BUCKPASSER: What do you mean?
RH: Well, originally, the studios owned theatres. Independent theatre owners bitched to the government and they stepped in and changed the status quo. Are things really any different now? The independents are still being squeezed out by what is becoming the same sort of monopoly.
BUCKPASSER: Oh, come now. That's business! Look at K-Mart. First, they absorb Venture and now they're merging with Sears. That's just business.
RH: And how many people lose their jobs after these mergers, when the store closings occur?
BUCKPASSER: Again, I say, that is business.
RH: And I say, how does "business" expect people to buy anything when they don't have a job? And those that do get a job at one of your theatres get paid diddly squat. It is well known that every time there is even a mention of the minimum wage going up, the Irritional Association of Theatre Owners are the first ones to campaign against it. Yet, by God, you'll never hesitate to raise your admission and concession prices every 15 minutes!
BUCKPASSER: Oh, my. Look at the time. I'm sorry, but I will have to end this interview now. You see, I haven't had a vacation in five weeks and I'm due to go on my fourth one so far this year tomorrow morning, so I have some packing to do. Goodbye.
[ 08-11-2005, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Robert Harrison ]
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Bevan Wright
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 176
From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 08-15-2005 03:59 PM
Disney’s Iger Suggests Closing DVD Windows
Author: HOLLY J. WAGNER
hwagner@questex.com
Posted: August 10, 2005
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On the heels of a weak quarter for movies theatrically and on video, Walt Disney Co. president, COO and CEO-elect Robert Iger suggested that studios need to re-examine release windows and how they market movies for those venues.
“A number of things have to change. We have to look more aggressively at windows changing … not only for the studio business but also for the TV business,” Iger said, adding that consumers should not have to wait six months for a rerun to see a favorite or missed TV episode.
“We can’t stand in the way and can’t allow tradition to stand in the way of where the consumer can go or wants to go,” Iger said. “Windows in general need to change. I don’t think it’s out of the question that DVDs could be released in the same window as the theatrical release. All the old rules should be called into question because the rules of consumption have changed so dramatically.”
Revenue for the Walt Disney Co.’s studio entertainment unit was down 15 percent to $1.5 billion for its third quarter ended July 2, and its operating income decreased $62 million to a loss of $34 million, but is optimistic for the rest of the year.
Executives cited a decrease in worldwide home entertainment revenue for the decline. Unit sales in this year’s quarter, which included National Treasure, The Pacifier and Disney/Pixar’s The Incredibles, were down compared to the same quarter last year, in which Buena Vista Home Entertainment released Kill Bill: Vol. 1, Disney/Pixar’s Finding Nemo, Scary Movie 3, Bad Santa, Brother Bear and Cold Mountain. Buena Vista also saw a decline in home video unit sales for feature films of comparable box-office strength.
“We’re pretty much discovering that with newly released [video] titles, if they don’t move in the first month, they don’t move at all,” Iger told analysts. “So there is a fair amount of pressure on a title when it is initially released. The falloff, in terms of consumption or purchases after the first month of the title on the shelves, is much more dramatic than we used to see.”
Higher worldwide theatrical film distribution, lower film cost writeoffs and improved television distribution results partially offset the losses.
Disney also took a $24 million write-down related to MovieBeam, which the company shuttered late last year.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-15-2005 05:44 PM
Well, he's right that windows need to change. They need to INCREASE. Just think about it.
Let's say a movie does blockbuster theatrical business. By holding off the DVD for say, a year, the anticipation builds up. Sure there would be some piracy, but that's (supposedly) what the DVD extras are for -- something you can't get from the pirates.
On the other side -- if the movie tanks theatrically, by waiting say 6 or 8 months for the video, the public gets the "bad taste" out of its mouth and the movie can be repromoted -- or even re-edited, if they think that'll solve it. If a film has a reputation of being a stinker, why would anyone want to buy it in 2 months?
Of course this article does what they all do -- it blames everything but the real problem, which of course is bad movies.
There's also my other idea, which is "bonus scenes" on the theatrical release. If, say the "Lord of the Rings" movies had scenes that WILL NOT BE ON THE DVD! the fans would have packed the theatres even more, and still bought the DVD anyway (and would still be clamoring today for the "theatrical" version to be released on disk.)
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 08-16-2005 12:58 AM
Course, the real big thing is that last year, starting if February with "Passion", we had a grand year of $300mil movies that came out. Theatres were rolling in the dough with those high grossing movies as
"LOTR-III","Passion", "Shrek2", "Spidey2", a host of others with ending with Disney's "the Incredibles"
This year had the grossers, but not as it was last year-why we are down some. Just hope that circuits put some of this extra earnings away to survive for next year instead of screaming bankruptcy again due to spending that extra money for nothing.
-Monte
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-16-2005 10:36 PM
quote: Richard C. Wolfe
Even though I'm subrun, I'm still playing the same product that all of you are, just a little later. If it's the product to blame, I should be experiencing the same rate of decline. Other then my old time management style, the only other things I do different is that I have low prices... $3.00/$2.00 for tickets, and refreshment prices where nothing costs more then $2.50 for the largest item. I also run NO preshow screen advertising.
What is any given movie worth in terms of ticket price? Very few shows these days are worth $7+ to see at a first run theater. When most people watch a movie trailer or see an ad on TV for a show fixing to open they subconsciously decide whether they'll see it at a first run theater, or wait for it at the bargain house, or wait a little longer for the DVD, or even longer for it to appear on HBO or just not watch it at all.
Most people are going to be at least a little bit pissed if they pay full price at a first run theater for their family to watch a movie that turns out to be a piece of crap.
There's less financial risk in watching a movie at a bargain house, and even smaller risk in simply renting a DVD and watching it on a little Wal-Mart mirco 5.1 setup. If the show turns out to be crap, most people will just shrug and say, "I'm glad I didn't blow $7 to see that at the theater."
Disney's Robert Iger says release windows need to change (read: disappear completely). These guys are short-sighted and suggest making a very destructive move.
The prevailing motive on why these stock-trading business types want release windows to close is all about short term gain. It does cost a hell of a fortune to produce and market a major movie. Studios borrow many millions of dollars to fund a production. That's a hell of a lot of interest payments. They think the real money is in the DVD release. So they want to eliminate the six month wait and six months worth of interest payments on a 9 figure note. I'm sure there's enough MBAs out there to fill up a sports stadium popping out slide rules and spread sheets to tell Hollywood execs how much money they'll save by having movies appear in theaters and DVD at the same time -or better yet, just go to the DVD.
But that still doesn't get away from a simple truth. A movie isn't a real movie unless it plays in a commercial movie theater. Without the legitimacy of a theatrical run any show, no matter how expensive it was to produce, would be nothing more than a straight to video made for TV movie.
With that stated, I think the studios will ultimately lose a lot more than they'll gain by eliminating release windows. They'll cause most commercial movie theaters to go out of business. I know every theater in my town would close in a very short amount of time under that business model. With everything just going straight to the video store (if even that) it just won't seem very impressive.
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