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Author Topic: Sony exhibiting Da Vinci Code in 4K Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-24-2006 04:30 PM                     Saw DVCODE last night at the AMC Century City 15 and they are advertising it in theatre as 4K, it's also printed out on the ticket. There's a brief snipe for SXRD 4K Digital Projection right before the movie. Trailers looked good for the most part, although I have no way of knowing if those were at 2K or 4K resolution. Trailer for CARS was the most stunning, althought the Jet Li trailer looked really nice, too. LADY IN THE WATER had easy-to-spot issues with its subtle zoom-ins on white text over black screen. Those text shots looked like video. Interlaced, even. The movie -- as an aside, I liked the movie a whole lot, which is a relief because now I need to see it again on film and also at 2K resolution (and then probably one more time in 4K). I'll also say that the sound quality in the auditorium was very good. DVC was the second movie I've seen at this new AMC and the other movie (WALK THE LINE in 35mm) had a good presentation as well. So, it appears that someone's doing something right at that location. Back to the movie... Obviously, the digital image was rock-steady and devoid of dirt, etc. I'd like to see it on film now because the darker shots seemed to be consistently out of focus and there are some shots where grain appears to have been added. And I'm not referring to the b/w flashback shots. No. There are some closeups of faces where the grain doesn't seem to behave like film grain. I'll try to provide a more accurate scene reference following my next viewing. Subtitles were a bit on the huge side. Actually looked like DVD subtitles. Anyway, those big, bright subtitles literally outshone the dim shots that they so often accompanied. The credit scroll at the end was like watching big screen TV. This may seem counterintuitive but somehow I think it might help to simulate jump/weave for tail credits in digital presentations. I haven't yet seen this particular movie in 2K but I can't honestly say that I was more impressed with the presentation quality than I was with any of the 2K shows I have seen to date. It certainly didn't look "twice as good," although I doubt if anyone was expecting that. I think that resolution is the least of the issues at this time. I was really unhappy with the way the darker scenes looked, they looked kinda muddy and smeared...not like poor focus, but like we needed more latitude and contrast ratio. Anyway, I'll probably have more to say after seeing a 2K and 35mm show.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Haney Master Film Handler Posts: 265 From: Cupertino, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 05-24-2006 05:10 PM                     quote: Manny Knowles I was really unhappy with the way the darker scenes looked, they looked kinda muddy and smeared...not like poor focus, but like we needed more latitude and contrast ratio. I have to say that's been my experience with digital projection as well. While it was still playing, I saw the most recent Harry Potter movie in 2K DLP at the Century 22 in San Jose, and while bright scenes looked okay, dark scenes looked like mud. I'm sorry to hear the Sony 4K system has the same problem.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-24-2006 07:11 PM                     Would a print off a DI manifest a similar apparent lack of latitude/contrast as this digital presentation? In other words, at what point in the chain does the problem emerge? Is this a limitation that goes as far back as the initial scan or is it a special problem pertaining to digital projection? Or somewhere in between? I guess one would have to see a show print to be sure.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 05-25-2006 09:36 AM                     Manny, What was your viewing distance and how does that compare to your viewing distance for 2K? What 4k should allow is viewing at closer distances. Basically, the 4k image should look as good from 2 screen heights as 2k looks from 4. At an equivalent distance, 4k may or may not look any different than 2k depending on how far back you are. I don't have time to calculate it now, but I believe that at 5 screen heights, your eye "runs out" of resolution viewing a 2k image. So if you stay in the same spot, you won't really see any improvement even if the image is 100k. Also, did 4k get rid of the stair-step jaggies on large titles? I've only seen one thing in 2k (Narnia) at about 2 screen heights and the opening logo had clearly visible stair steps.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-25-2006 11:44 AM                     In both cases, I sat about one-third the way from the screen to the back wall, which is about as close as I care to get if I'm actually going to watch the movie. Anyone who sits closer than that is out of their mind. There was one showing of NARNIA where I sat in the fourth row but that was because I had already seen the movie a few times and was looking for trouble. Still, even from the 4th row of El Capitan -- granted, there's some extra distance from the apron of the stage to the screen itself -- NARNIA looked great in 2K. Anyone know the cost of Sony's 4K system versus 2K DLP?  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-25-2006 03:07 PM                     The Sony SRX-R105 (5000 lumen) was listing at $67,000 plus lens and boards. And the Sony SRX-R110 (10,000 lumen) was listing at $98,000 plus lens and boards. There are 4 types of optional lenses available for the projector. LKRL-Z115 1.5- to 1.9- times zoom lens LKRL-Z120 1.9- to 2.3- times zoom lens LKRL-Z125 2.3- to 4.0- times zoom lens LKRL-Z140 4.0- to 7.0- times zoom lens The LKRL-Z125 lens lists at $13,770  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-25-2006 06:43 PM                        Are there any pictures or brochures/literature for these 4kw projectors? All Google seems to be giving me is home theatre products. And here's a question I've been dying to ask: Are you still restricted to a maximum wattge of 7k? You'd think that with digital needing twice the wattage, the technology might actually make it easier to create 80' screens, because you could increase the wattage to say 10kw. But, who knows?  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-25-2006 07:03 PM                     Go to this site. Sony Then click products and then projectors and then Digital Cinema for the information on the projectors.  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-25-2006 07:34 PM                        Thanks Bill! Just what I was looking for. Could you imagine how small projection booths would/could be with these projectors in them? It just doesn't feel right.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-26-2006 12:32 AM                        What could there be that's different in making lenses for video as opposed to film that would make it cost $13,770? Couldn't a film projector lens with the same focal length still focus on the imaging module that the manufacturers lens focuses on? Why would you need a proprietary lens? I guess the reason they are so expensive is that 1) Sony is not actually manufacturing them -- perhaps they are ISCOs or Schneiders, so Sony has to make a profit on them and 2) Sony may figure that any exhibitor who commits to plunking down $98,000 for a projectect must have another 14K lying around for the lens. Are these lenses universal as are film projector lenses? In other words, can they be interchanged with say a Christie projector or Barco, or are you bound to buying lenses from the manufacturer only.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 05-26-2006 05:35 AM                     It is interesting to note that Sony's website does not show the extra (huge) stand that is required for the SXRD projectors to satisfy the DCI security requirements. This was on show at Showest and I doubted that the stand would fit through many projection room doors.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-26-2006 08:11 AM                     Film lenses are small, magnify a fixed dimension, film is the same size and there is a legacy of 100 years making lenses for film. Video lenses are quite a bit larger. Custom glass prices grow exponentially with size. Video chips are all different sizes. There are that many units yet so economy of scale doesn't exist for video lenses. You can't use the lenses from film for video.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-26-2006 09:27 AM                        Thanks Ian. Man, isn't that a kick in the butt for the exhibitors who thought digital will save them tons of money.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 05-26-2006 11:01 AM                     quote: Frank Angel Man, isn't that a kick in the butt for the exhibitors who thought digital will save them tons of money. I don't think that any exhibitors think digital will save them money. The studios think it will save them money and that's why this whole thing is happening. If the studios didn't save money long term, we'd be seeing 3 perf prints or something else to save money.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-26-2006 11:32 AM                        In addition to what Ian said, all of the Sony video projection lenses appear to be zooms. High quality zooms with short zoom ratios, but corrected very well for geometry at any setting within their ranges. So they're going to cost a lot more than fixed-length primes. The prices quoted are right in line with good ENG-grade zooms as used in video production from companies like Fujinon, Canon, or Schneider.  |  IP: Logged

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