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Topic: Movie Theatre Circuits Fined For Child Labor Violations

Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-12-2011 04:42 PM

quote: Chad Souder
I'm sorry. From what I've seen on Jersey Shore that doesn't really surprise me. We don't have that problem here.

Hate the game, not the player. Insinuating everybody from New Jersey behaves like those morons lessens your entire argument in my opinion.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-12-2011 04:56 PM

I never meant to imply that federal exemption didn't apply to all employees...it is just the managers that get extra screwed...the salaried ones don't get any extra money. The hourly one does get their regular rate.

The hourly ones are also eligible for unions that could bargain for overtime pay for over 40. There are states and localities that require time and one half for over 40 and those businesses don't go broke doing it. Normally one only wants their better employees working those extra hours anyway since there is extra value in their service (they are more capable, can handle more, do a better job...etc). In my past jobs...it was a way to give a raise to those employees that were superior without the formality of a pay grade increase.

While I can appreciate the notion that working the extra hours at straight time is a means for some. It also proves the point that the exemption artificially depresses wages in this industry. If good employees can't afford to work in the cinema industry, they would seek employment elsewhere and force a change in the wage structure if the theatre wanted to keep good employees. Instead, the talented employees must give up more of their free time to make what they should make in a reasonable amount of hours.

The bottom line for me is...there should not be exemptions for the movie industry.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 03-14-2011 12:40 PM

Steve,

Management pay structure is based on how many hours they are expected to work. If that number hours was say 50 and but it needs to be capped at 40, the salary paid will be lower. I used to pay my managers with an expectation of 45 hours a week but found I was getting the short end of that stick. So now all of my staff are paid hourly.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-15-2011 08:37 AM

To return to the original topic:

Bobby Henderson from Oklahoma was really on-point and stated the dirty little secret of the movie business, the exploitation of the “salaried” people in the exhibition industry.

Sam Chavez also got it right. The entire exhibition industry has a deplorable record on violation of child labor laws.

Bttm line: they violated federal law and they had to pay the price.

If you are in disagreement with the law, then work to change it.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-17-2011 06:59 PM

quote: Aaron Mehocic
Insinuating everybody from New Jersey behaves like those morons lessens your entire argument in my opinion.

I know. It was a joke. I've never even watched Jersey Shore, although I've spent a substantial amount of time on the real Jersey Shore since my mother was born and raised in Cherry Hill and her parents had a summer home in Tom's River. But I digress. It was just a joke.

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Bttm line: they violated federal law and they had to pay the price.

Nobody is arguing with you there, but that's a far cry from your original accusations of laziness, working employees to death and owners who don't give a damn.

While I also agree with Bobby, I don't think it is something unique to the exhibition industry. I don't know of a salaried person in ANY field that works 40 hours. I would guess 45-50 is more common. I suppose there are some self-employed people out there that can make that happen, but most of them I know work far, far more than 40 hours since it's their own money. Thinking through my mental Rolodex of friends and aquaintances, everyone salaried works well over 40. Overtime laws make some think 40 hours is a full week of work, or a maximum a person should be expected to work, when in my opinion that is not true. It's just a convenient, even number for which unions long ago negotiated.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-21-2011 06:34 PM

Chad, you don't know of a salaried employee in ANY field that works 40 hours?

Try teachers and school administrators for starters. There are a great many jobs that pay salaries AND work even less than 40 hours. Here's a link if you care to educate yourself:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-21/living/cb.work.less.earn.more_1_earnings-annual-workers?_s=PM:LIVING

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 03-22-2011 12:11 AM

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Try teachers and school administrators for starters

This is a joke right? I know many teachers and not a single one works less then 50 hours a week.

Even if you took the worst teacher in the world, and they worked only 7 hours a day at the school itself. Thats 8am to 3pm, thats 35 hours a week. Yea, that falls in your catagory John. But even bad teachers work more hours at home and at the school grading papers and such. Or does that not count on their hours of work?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-22-2011 06:36 AM

You forgot the planning out of the day...I guess they do all of that on the fly too.

Teaching has never been an 8-hour day...it is always much longer.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-22-2011 05:27 PM

I do think teachers are underpaid, but I get tired of the "pity party" they're always throwing themselves. They get a couple of great perks, such as:

- Tenure
- Summers off

...and, if they're smart enough to be a teacher they should be smart enough to know what the pay is before they get into the field.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-23-2011 10:51 AM

Speaking as a child of 2 elementary school teachers, who taught in 2 different school districts, I have to say that after the first few years of teaching, they have it pretty easy. Of course there are always exceptions do to a given school or class demographics, but they are exceptions.

Lesson plans get recycled from year to year, with some minor changes. This takes a few hours one day over the summer.

Papers graded while watching TV in the evening.

Summers off.

In NJ, paid time off for the so-called teachers convention in Atlantic City. This is a trade show, kind of a Show-East for teachers. Yes, there are seminars, but mainly it is a big boondoggle vacation on the tax payers.

Tenure, so that you can slack off and still not get fired.

I do not feel that teachers, or other government employees are overpaid. They are not. What is out of control is the obscene amount retirement benefits they receive, and the sense that they are somehow entitled to it. Years ago, government employees were paid below market wages in return for better retirement. They are no longer paid below market, and have not been for some time.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-23-2011 11:11 AM

My problem with the point that civil servants are paid above market conditions is one where we have to debate whether the water rose or the bridge lowered.

I'm in the latter camp. The middle class has disappeared for a number of reasons so civil servants' pay is relatively higher compared to private sector, but they're not exactly getting ahead of the curve.

There is the implied social contract, if not in all cases a union contract, that both parties went into in good faith.

Is it fair to nullify unilaterally wages and working conditions both parties agreed to? That is what some would like to do.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-23-2011 08:17 PM

John - As others have already pointed out, the mere mention of teachers is proof you need some education in their field. Our local schools have conferences this week. The teachers won't be getting home until 6:30 tonight and 8:30 tomorrow, after a week of completing report cards every night at home.

Now, take that CNN list, remove everyone on it that is self-employed (something I mentioned as an exception), then remove people whose hours are limited for safety reasons by government or company regulation, and what do you have left? A couple of highly specialized fields that I don't know anyone in and that such a small percent of salaried professions that they're the exception that proves the rule.

The fact is, people who work 8-5 with an hour lunch always come in a little early, stay a little late, work a little during lunch some days, maybe the occasional Saturday.

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
Papers graded while watching TV in the evening.

That's still doing work outside the workplace

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin was the last to post
Summers off.

Thank/blame the unions

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
Tenure, so that you can slack off and still not get fired.

Ditto

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Michael McGovern
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: New Britain, CT, USA
Registered: May 2008

posted 03-23-2011 11:18 PM

As has been brought up, the only thing I've ever seen in my years in the business that should be (but isn't) a labor violation is companies that expect salaried managers to work 60 hours a week for anywhere from $12 to $16 per hour in order to reduce the amount of payroll spent on hourly staff. It sucks, but the 60 hour work week is the reality for salaried managers in just about every retail setting these days.

It would really all depend on your district manager, some are stricter than others, and I knew some salaried managers who were definitely getting away with working under 40 hours per week, some even under 30. It was really bad for a while, but now Regal forces even salaried workers to swipe a clock which monitors their hours.

Back in the Hoyts days however it was a joke, I knew many a salaried General or Assistant that would work under 20 hours a week (and that was on a busy week) and many who would only step in their building maybe once a week to complete whatever they were responsible for and couldn't be delegated (which usually wasn't much)

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-24-2011 07:24 PM

Chad Souder wrote:

"John - As others have already pointed out, the mere mention of teachers is proof you need some education in their field. Our local schools have conferences this week. The teachers won't be getting home until 6:30 tonight and 8:30 tomorrow, after a week of completing report cards every night at home."

Really Chad? You are addressing a former teacher who worked 31 years teaching High School Social Studies, so I don't believe I need any education in the field. You should be more careful with your assumptions.

The contract in the district where I worked called for a 6hr 45 min work day. Once you get your prep down, it takes very little time to write lesson plans. Paper grading is aided today by scanners. Using a computer, you can easily make up a multiple choice test in a matter of minutes. One period of your work day is earmarked as a "professional period" of 45 minutes, so if you don't screw around at that time reading newspapers and drinking coffee, you can get most of your work outside of the classroom done.

If you are an experienced teacher, you should need no more than an additional hour a day for other items that need attention. When you start out as a newbee, of course you put in more time until you get to learn the ropes.

I would never argue that elementary teachers burn up far more than 40 hours a week. Those people are saints. As far as teacher conferences go, their students are given half days when those conferences take place, so that argument is a wash.

Phys Ed teachers have even less prep, and guidance people don't take work home. Supervisors don't work over 40 hours either.

But then again, these facts probably don't impress you because you are the one who said "I don't live in New Jersey."

Mitchell Dvoskin wrote: "Tenure, so that you can slack off and still not get fired." To which Chad wrote "ditto"

Surprise, guys. I would be the first one to scrap tenue for a merrit system, with one simple caveat: Eliminate local Boards of Education and replace them with a statewide independent commission to evaluate teachers under a uniform set of standards. That takes the politics out of the equation.

And Mitchell, as far as your statement " What is out of control is the obscene amount retirement benefits they receive, and the sense that they are somehow entitled to it.", I am sorry that you feel that way and I know that nothing I can say is going to change it. I would remind you that I, like every other retiree, paid money into that retirement system. Further, that system would be self-supporting today if the pension fund had not been raided by every New Jersey governor (both Democratic and Republican) since Christie Todd Whitman. As far as that "obscene amount of retirement benefits" you speak about, I can assure you that what I receive from the NJ State Pension Fund is far from obscene.

In the meantime, what most people don't realize is that tenured teachers can be brought up on charges and dismissed. There are a number of ways to get rid of laggards, but the truth is that most (not all) administrators don't want to be bothered implementing the process. The bad apples hold the good teachers back.

Sure, the system doesn't work, but nobody wants to take the time to fix it.

This topic has strayed far from it's original subject, but it's been fun.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-25-2011 02:17 AM

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr
In the meantime, what most people don't realize is that tenured teachers can be brought up on charges and dismissed.

Just so we're clear:
Are you saying that no one realized that if a cop gets arrested and cannot physically be in school, they'll lose their job? Or are you referring to something else?

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