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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: Looking for thoughts from those who have run a 'Classic Film Series'
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-01-2011 04:32 PM
I would not have agreed with this notion a few years ago...but in some cases, the Blurays are better than the (available) 35mm prints. And, yes, that includes Black-and-White.
That's right. I said it out loud!
I'm seeing a lot of trashed 35mm prints of repertory titles. One can only wonder how long the studios will want to pay to keep storing those prints.
Just last week, I had to repair sprockets about once per foot for over 100 feet. Another recent reel (not the same film) had a section containing over a dozen splices in about 50 feet. Still another reel was clearly missing footage from the start of Reel-3. And then there are issues of faded color...and the dirt and scratches, crescendo-ing into the parade of changeover cues. (Just one of the reasons why those pesky grease-pencil cues are necessary.)
I'll never understand the so-called "purists" (aka "film huggers") who claim to actually prefer seeing these defects. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) So much for what the filmmakers intended.
If you are still running film -- and you're lucky enough to get your hand on a good print -- then, by all means, roll with film.
But, yeah... Good luck with that! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Justin Hamaker
Film God
Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 11-25-2011 08:47 PM
Can I just bring this back to the point that I am not considering using Blu-Ray for any normal presentation. I would only be using Blu-Ray for something special where my choices are playing Blu-Ray or playing nothing at all.
Maybe I don't see the things you're talking about because my eye isn't trained to see them. I never missed a cue mark, cap code, or a splice; but that was because I knew what I was seeing and so my mind registered it. For as seldom as I might be running something on Blu-Ray, I'm happy to not have my eye trained to pick-up "flaws" or "defects". That way I can actually enjoy the show without being "aware" of the presentation.
One other point that I had not thought of until you pointed it out is that I am able to loose myself in a digital presentation much easier than I can with a film presentation. With film I was always aware of splices, cue marks, cap code, poorly filed aperture plates, poorly hung masking, flickering lamps, projector "chatter", and all the other distracting issues. I have yet to see a digital presentation where I was distracted by any of these technical issues.
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Tony L. Hernandez
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 158
From: Windsor, CO, USA
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 11-26-2011 10:51 PM
Well, you really have to advertise what you are screening your classic/specialty films on. It's just a win win for you and the customer.
1. There are folks that feel digital anything is better; these folks will be overjoyed and most likely to come to your screening.
2. There are true cinephiles that feel that film is the only way to see a classic. Many of these cinephiles are willing to drive a long distance (I had one travel 145 miles to one of my classic screenings) to see their favorite classic on film but are leery of doing so if not advertised since many classic screenings are on DVD/Blu-Ray. If you say it is film, this will encourage them to come while if you say digital, you leave the final decision up to them and give them no room to be pissed off at you if they still choose to come.
3. The rest of the average joes could not care less what it is shown on so weather you advertise a new, 70mm print or a DVD, they will still come and have the same experience in the end.
My arthouse is a calendar film series and at the bottom of the listing of each movie, we state the country of origin, release year, aspect ratio AND the format ( 16mm, 35mm, DCP, DVD, Blu-Ray,Beta-cam,etc). This clears everything up nice n' early and keeps us from having customers unhappy with the surprise 10min to showtime.
I also strongly disagree that saying "digital presentation" in your advertising degrades digital...it is simply stating the facts. If I write you a simple line about my home saying that "my basement has avacado green shag carpet", I am neither touting it as "a beautiful room with a delightful retro feel" nor am I degrading it by saying "it is an outdated dungeon that desperately needs improvement". I am simply stating a naked fact and allowing YOU to decide weather or not you like the facts; with as many tastes as there are in the world, everyone has their own opinion and must draw their own conclusion based on the facts present.
Digital for classics never goes at my Arthouse. It is a community of cinephiles who prefer film and given the fact that I visit with almost each and every customer at 75% of my shows, I know them all too well to ever try pulling the wool over their eyes by "sneaking" an unannounced digital show in. We have had issues with prints getting lost in shipping, in most cases we are able to scare up a digital back up. When this happens and we end up switching a film advertised as 16/35mm to digital, we discount the tickets, put a breaking news headline on our website/phone announcement and warn them before they go in.
With the exception of classic foreign and arthouse films, which usually range from fair to abysmal in condition, I have actually had really good luck with my classic prints. Everything I have gotten from Criterion (Fox Classics), Universal Classics and Janus in the past two years has been great. The prints are almost brand new and have little to no wear and absolutely no damage. Criterion does not seem to be quite as strict as Universal and Janus (heads and tails can be cut, no threatening notes in cans, etc) but to date, I have not had any serious issues with their stuff. Even the 16mm prints I get from them are very old but in excellent condition. I heard a rumor that they just discontinued ther 16mm library so that may be a moot point now.
The Japan Foundation is also slowly but surly striking new 16 AND 35mm prints of their stuff. Just ran "A Woman's Testament" (1960) and "The Woman who Touched Legs" (1960) from their archive and discovered these to be excellent prints, both in lab work (very beautiful color) and condition. They were both struck within the last year.
I am not totally against DVDs and Blu-Ray classics screenings. It has been a godsend allowing your average, first run theater to offer classics for the first time ever since most of these theaters are not set up with adequate staffing, facilities or equipment to use archival prints. These theaters also do not have the contacts or prestige to allow archives to rent to them. In this case, as Justin said, it comes down to "show on Blu-Ray or not at all". For this, I am forever grateful to these versatile digital formats because they allow our classics to hit more screens, more often.
Furthermore, while there are plenty of fair to beautiful prints of classics, there are just as many, if not more, that have no prints available. In this case, this leaves digital (in any format) the best option for specialty and average theaters alike since it is better to show it in some form than not at all.
That said if you have a specialty venue with a dual-projector booth, experienced and full-time operators and ties to archives and the classic departments of the major studios, you have no excuse to bastardize a classic by showing a DVD/Blu-Ray. You can be ashamed of yourself if you do not at least try to get a 16/35/70mm print and you can consider yourself a crook if you do not warn your audience. Remember, specialty venues cater to specialty people, not your average, oblivious to everything Joe. If you cannot at least try to understand them and their desire for quality arts (yes, film is strongly considered an art), you'd best take your time and energy elsewhere.
I personally will not attend a classic screening on digital although I will make an exception if it is one of my favorite movies AND the theater is within 20 miles of my house. Since I have a thing for technicolor musicals, anything Astair/Rogers and specifically "White Christmas", seeing these on "the big screen" with the "big sound" and theater setting will allow me to temporarily forgive the digital presentation for a few select titles. However, you'd best warn me of this before I go out of my way to your theater.
GEOFF: was your "Jaws" disappointment,by any chance, at The Rialto Theater in Loveland, Colorado?
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 11-27-2011 12:47 PM
If one is set up to run classics on film, you'd be amazed at what is available. I've seen within the last 12-months JAWS on film that was in near mint condition. No, that sort of print is not going to be available to a "platter" house or even any old 2-projector with inexperience people running the equipment and equipment that isn't really up to keeping the print in good condition.
So yes, I can see where a venue like Justin's (typical cinema) will have no options but run a BluRay (if a DCP is not made available). However, it is a cheapening of the cinema experience that I don't like...it is an arbitrary lowering of standards to suit convenience. It is better to have a theatre in the area that caters to that sort of thing present a classic that is no longer available to 1st run and will present it in a manner that maximizes its enjoyment. If it is just about seeing the movie, then the BluRay was also available to the patron for their home pleasure.
Note, I'm personally more tolerant of seasonal presentations where it truly is the communal experience and it would be impractical for a studio to strike many prints for a one day event...for instance, if a theatre wanted to run a John Carpenter Holloween "scare fest". For something like that, people are not coming for the presentation, per say. Conversely, if a theatre was running a John Carpenter retrospective series, then yes, I would expect that 35mm prints were used or possibly DCPs (particularly if they are 4K resolution or above).
The "better than nothing" excuse doesn't fly. It is better than nothing at YOUR theatre, not everywhere.
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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 11-27-2011 08:43 PM
quote: Tony L. Hernandez
GEOFF: was your "Jaws" disappointment,by any chance, at The Rialto Theater in Loveland, Colorado?
Nope, it was at the Cameo Cinema in St. Helena, Ca, in 2008.
Tony, are you claiming that you work at a cinema somewhere near Windsor, Colorado that shows older films in 35mm???? What's the name? Got a link?
Geoff
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