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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Topic: End of proper wide screens = the end of moviegoing for me
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-15-2016 11:07 AM
Preshows are basically considered a necessary evil at this point. (Something has to bring in extra revenue to pay for the overpriced chairs with higher maintenance costs and half seating capacity.) Because the preshow requires having a visible screen to project onto, curtains are typically omitted in a theater's design as well.
That being said everyone has opinions, and here are mine. I feel the golden rule of presentation when curtains are nonexistant and preshow is considered a necessity:
PRESHOW - The preshow should be the LEAST "impressive" thing anyone will see.
*The image must NOT be bigger than the presentation the customers paid for.
*The sound must NOT be more "immersive" (I detest that overused word) than the presentation customers paid for.
*The lights should NEVER lower during the presentation, (which would indicate that the presentation the customers paid for is beginning).
TRAILERS - The trailers should be MORE impressive than the preshow, but LESS impressive than the feature.
*The image can be the same size as the preshow or feature size. (A better effect is achieved if the image remains preshow size, but obviously a flat preshow with flat trailers and a flat feature is what it is with most setups.)
*The sound should be MORE impressive than the preshow, but LESS impressive than the feature.
*The lights should dim slightly indicating part of the real show the customers paid for is beginning.
FEATURE - This must in every way be the most impressive section of the entire thing.
*The sound must be MORE impressive than the preshow AND the trailers.
*The image must be the biggest the customers have seen thus far.
*The lights should dim fully (to whatever that means per specifics of the auditorium).
Unfortunately we are battling pure anti-presentation stupidity these days.
The COMMERCIALS in the preshow are being recorded several db louder than the regular preshow content (such as trivia). So even if you adjust the typical preshow content to something acceptable, the commercials will be annoyingly loud. (In the land of bullshit, I hear this being referred to as "enhanced audio" instead of just calling it "louder audio".)
The TRAILERS are being given over-the-top sound mixes with extra compression and various mixing tricks to make them sound louder, plus they are being recorded significantly louder on the track as well.
The FEATURES are about the only thing that hasn't changed much over the years, but because the typical theater adjusts their master fader based upon what will not get them complaints on trailer volume, most features are not being played at a proper volume level.
The whole thing is backwards!!!
My recommendation (and general practice):
PRESHOW - Lights stay all the way up so people can easily find their seats. Sound is collapsed to mono as a rule. (An auto gain compensation is applied when possible within the sound processor, such as QSYS.) Volume is played at a traditional "living room tv" volume. In the event of a scope presentation, the preshow is fitted within the height of the feature's scope image.
TRAILERS - Lights dim to half. Sound is folded down from 5.1 to 3 across the stage (left, center, right only). Volume is played at 4 on the fader.
FEATURE - Lights dim to the lowest setting (always making sure to extinguish the overhead bulbs, which are distracting to patrons with glasses). Sound is full 5.1 (or better if the auditorium is capable). Volume is played at 7 on the fader. Yes 7. (If an auditorium isn't calibrated such that it can play a movie "comfortably loud" at 7 on the fader, then the trailers should be lowered appropriately as well.)
Also at the end of a movie, the next movie's format is analyzed and if it is a common width room, the masking is adjusted right then and there before any customer enters.
This is in my opinion as good as can be done given a typical auditorium of today. Unfortunately with masking-less 1.85 auditoriums there isn't much that can be done except to shrink the preshow down to scope height for scope presentations, but any way you slice it, customers feel ripped off when they see a huge screen and the image does not completely fill what is visible to them.
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Eric Hooper
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 532
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 12-15-2016 02:09 PM
I just saw pictures of the "remodeled" Century 16 in Mountain View, CA on Yelp.
The new Cinemark Luxury Loungers seating looks real nice.
The new unmasked (what looks like 16X9) screens look horrible, with the letterboxing and pillarboxing.
![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
To me, the new fancy seats don't mean anything if the picture I paid to come and see looks terrible...
However, this place seems to be a cash cow for Cinemark, and the customers buying tickets seem to be more in love with the seats than they do the actual movie picture.
As others have said in this thread, it seems customers have now just grown accustomed letterboxing and pillarboxing, just like their TV's at home. The majority are not smart enough to know something is wrong with the picture. It's as if they're being taken advantage of and being duped in my opinion. And like other's have also said, it's going to come back and bite the industry in the rear...
When they finally wake up and realize they've been duped, they're going to abandon movie theaters all together. They can get the same picture at home.
The smart customers have already started figuring this out... There's also an anger and backlash feeling to this also, as displayed by myself and others on this forum. It's as if our intelligence is being insulted and we are being duped. The general public is going to catch onto this eventually. And one or two entire theater chains doing this reflects badly on and is going to effect ALL theaters in the industry.
As other's have said, maybe it will be a good idea for the theaters who are "doing it right" to begin explaining this to their customers. It will educate their customers that they are receiving top knotch showmanship, and that the theater respects and values their business as a customer. It will also reflect poorly on the other theaters who are "doing it wrong", which hopefully will be a good thing because those theaters who are "doing it wrong" are about to take down the entire whole industry with them...
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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 12-15-2016 06:56 PM
I consider myself more knowledgeable than the average person when it comes to the tech aspects of movie theaters and grew up watching scope films properly masked, but I didn’t really pay attention to, nor did the Common Height vs. Common Width screen issue bother me until it was pointed out on this site. I’m trying to see Rogue One at a Dolby Cinema AMC in Norwalk CA, which seems to have a fixed Common Height screen like the one Martin is talking about in NYC, but for some strange reason they are not playing it in there. What the hell??
Question for Martin or anyone else, I see Empire 25 in NYC is playing Rogue One in Dolby Cinema with 3D. I though Dolby Cinema was supposed to only show 2D?
I believe someone on here posted how they will not see a movie on a “silver screen” but how does one know that info? There is a local AMC theater in Torrance CA that really pisses me off when they play movies in certain auditoriums. The presentation has that dark, colorless soft focus look. I’ve complained to AMC and had a conversation with their management about those screens when Gone Girl was released, still nothing has been done. I sometimes peak my head into those screens and to my horror, Force Awakens and Hacksaw Ridge looked so DAMN terrible!! I mean come on, how can anyone accept an image so lousy? I just avoid those screens altogether. And yet there is a much older AMC two miles away that doesn’t seem to have this issue.
I’ve also read (I believe on this thread) the issue of scope films not looking as good on a properly masked screen when it’s digitally projected. Could The Arclight Dome in Hollywood fall into that category? I saw La La Land there this week and thought the image wasn’t great, considering they have laser projectors in there. And the slight letterboxing due to the 2.55:1 image was a bit distracting. The bars were hardly noticeable in the center of the screen and thickened at the edges, I guess since The Dome screen is curved? The quality of the image was more of an issue with me. I also thought that screen had the ability to extend more than 2.39:1
Thoughts anyone?
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