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Topic: First US Theatre With LED Screen

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-23-2018 10:56 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Yet if volumes of LED screens go up and they are able to lose a lot of the material, which is now still being used, the cost of them could come down considerably.

The cost of conventional LED signs (typically made for outdoor use) has come down quite a bit over the past 20 years. But the cost per pixel makes something like a HD-quality jumbotron for a stadium still cost a fortune. A 48' X 14' digital billboard with a modest 35mm pixel pitch would have cost over $500,000 at the end of the 1990's. Now you can get a good quality board the same size but with a tighter 20mm pitch (and a whole lot more pixels) for $100K to $150K, depending on how much the company selling it marks it up. Mind you, that's the LED board only. That billboard structure is going cost a good chunk of money too.

Losing material isn't much of an option using current technology, especially if we're talking about a display that would be used outdoors like a drive-in theater screen. These LED signs contain a lot of steel, aluminum and plastic. A high resolution display is going to draw a lot of power. The outdoor signs have to be weather proofed, yet feature different methods of ventilation.

Pushing the economy of scale downward using traditional LED sign materials and technology is going to be difficult. The market for these types of LED displays is shrinking in many cities and towns. Some communities are drafting highly restrictive sign ordinances, many of which are completely banning the use of LED signs. Edmond, Oklahoma (a higher income suburb of Oklahoma City) changed its ordinance to ban any new LED signs. The so-called "retail apocalypse" is another thing that may drive down sales of all types of signs in general.

Indoor movie screens are really going to need a new kind of exposed LED technology that hasn't been created yet. The LED tiles need to be at least somewhat flexible and somehow allow sound to pass through the boards. That would require new methods to physically join the tiles, power them and send digital data to them.

quote: Scott Norwood
If it works in daylight (or even twilight), that could be a huge boon for drive-ins. Does it?

Current LED sign technology can work great in daylight if a good quality product is installed. Contrast will take a hit if the sun is blasting the sign face directly, but you'll still see the imagery just fine. One solution is building the drive-in screen facing an angle where it's not getting hit directly with late afternoon sunlight. Any decent outdoor LED sign will either have a solar cell or use a timer to control dimming. If a good quality LED sign is set at daylight brightness at night time the display will be painfully bright.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Ok, thanks for that explanation. But TV set pictures are outstanding...why can't they just make a big theater screen using the same process as a TV set, only bigger? If a cinema screen is going to be compared to a big TV, why not just make it that way?

Because the materials and manufacturing processes are entirely different. It's impossible to manufacture a one-piece TV monitor the size of a movie theater screen. The thing would have to be built out of a series of tiles. Such a thing would not be seamless, which would make it a deal-breaker for movie screen use. When you scale the amount of materials and components used in a single TV monitor up to the size of a movie theater screen the cost increases in geometric fashion. What kind of controller would be used to chain all these TV tiles together? I've seen plenty of tiled video walls before, but nothing on a the scale of a movie theater screen.

Some major advances had to be made just to get OLED technology to scale from the tiny size of a phone up to a good sized TV set. OLED is a totally different thing from the exposed LED technology used in signs. The manufacturing process of a small OLED display is a little similar to computer chip fabrication. There is no cost effective way to scale OLED up to the massive size of movie theater screens or billboards. Exposed LED signs are made with lots of individual parts. Some of the product assembly process is automated; some of it has to be done by hand. I think of it like daisy-chaining a whole bunch of computer motherboard-like components together into one big product.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
The problem here is that current LED walls are still not really a mass-manufactured product like normal "consumer screens". Also there, you'll notice that only the common resolutions are real cheap. If you're looking for an LCD based screen with an odd resolution or configuration, it will become extremely expensive quite easily.

When it comes to LED signs they're manufactured based on the customer order. Companies like Daktronics will have a lot of the basic components in stock, but it takes time after the display is ordered for it to be assembled and tested. And, yes, the prices of these displays do go up as resolution is increased. A coarse 34mm display won't have nearly as many pixels as a 20mm display. Tighten the pitch between pixel centers to 10mm or 6mm and the price will really shoot upward.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-24-2018 08:23 AM

They are rated at decrease in output over a period of time. Some are down to 80% at 30,000 hours while others are down a full 50% at 30,000 hours.

So you have to over-buy a bit on the lasers to ensure you get the light you need at the anticipated end of the projector's life. Changing xenons is cheap and the light output is "like new" with each lamp change.

Note, color wise laser-phosphor is marginal and depending on the system, they use a few tricks to get it DCI compliant. That said, nobody is watching movies in real-life with color meters and for film 99% of theatres were at the wrong color and we all survived.

Temperature and Humidity are also big factors in laser life. If you plan on getting a laser system, plan on making sure it has a good HVAC system and can maintain humidity too (don't want any condensation inside). Also plan on starting the laser at no more than 75% of its power (for any format) so you have headroom as the laser(s) decay. The more headroom you have, geometrically the more life span you have bought.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 04-24-2018 10:43 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
We are running 4kw. I guess the biggest benefit I could see from Laser would be not having to replace bulbs, but what's the lifetime of a laser system?

The honest answer is, who knows for even a reasonable guess?

Until the technology has been in use for xx years, we will never know what the lifespan actually is... (think Sony LcOS).

DLP has proven to be fairly robust, despite it being a "moving mirror" "mechanical" technology..I honestly thought that we'd see a LOT more stuck pixels and outright failures over time.

Or, think of CFL bulbs..they claimed such high lifespans, but the reality is the driver circuits suck and they overdrive the actual lamp to the point that failures are too often (sometimes dangerous) and the lifespan is nowhere near what was claimed.

The true lifespan of a laser projection system will depend heavily on design (not overdriving anything, adequate cooling, etc.), quality control and tolerances, and resisting the temptation to use marginal spec components (Dolby, you need to heed this with your blasted power supplies).

In short, ask us again in ten years and we'll have the answer. [Big Grin]

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-02-2018 08:22 PM

LED screens at the drive in: 2 words: water and lightning. Reminds me of water-filled speakers. Now I have to worry about frozen speakers.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-02-2018 10:31 PM

A LED-based drive-in movie theater screen would have to be made just like an outdoor LED-based digital billboard or digital sign. Those are weather-proofed. A direct strike from lightning could cause damage but such a thing is actually rare. Since the displays are modular the parts that were damaged are repaired or replaced, not the entire display. If lighting was that big a deal our company wouldn't be able to sell any LED signs, billboards or even gas price displays to anyone.

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