another thing, I SNOWBOARD!!!

I do not smoke pot.

All the snowboarders underwent serious drug testing. They all cleared. Do you think the stuff they did you could do stoned?? I have seen stoned boarders, they cant do this stuff!!! They all fall down.

"PRIVATE individuals using PRIVATE funds to purchase PRIVATE gifts to be given to other PRIVATE individuals working for other PRIVATE businesses with NO GOVERNMENTAL MONEY OR INFLUENCE, does not constitue BRIBERY"

Dave - When those PRIVATE individuals just happen to decide which town gets the olympics, and the PRIVATE donors just happen to stand to make a lot of money off the tourism, I beg to differ. 'Hey, here's a new car. I sure would like the Olympics in my town.'

Finally, just because you, Dave, don't smoke pot, doesn't mean those guys don't. Did you watch the medal ceremony? Could their eyes have been any more bloodshot and glazed over? Nothing like rolling up a big fat one right before you get your hardware. There are plenty of ways to pass even the most rigorous marijuana tests, and I'm sure these guys know the tricks.

p.s. Bob, if you are truly shocked about what has probably been happening in the Olympics for 100 years, you may want to upgrade from the cave you have apparently been living in. It's just that this year they picked a judge that was too weak or honest or whatever to lie through their teeth and stand by their decision. So they ship her home before she can spill any more beans, and wait for whatever slap on the wrist they'll pretend to hand out. Remember, these events involve gambling and bragging rights.

You need to go snowboarding in the nude and cool off a bit! Indeed it was private monies used, and in fact the whole bribrey case was basically thrown out of court and everyone aquitted. Nobody could prove any wrong doing by anyone, much less who picks their nose in the dark while driving down I-15. Be careful, you could get caught in a similar scandal if you're caught out there in the nude!
Mark @ GTS

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I am quite "chilled" here in utah.

Don't get me wrong, I only get upset at stupidity, not free thinking, as you are exhibiting. I however am a free thinker as well, and do not "chill" when I express my thoughts.

I know lots of pot smokers who board. Once again, they cannot do these stunts these medalists pulled off. The bloodshot eyes easily attributable to lets say..... COLD WINTER WEATHER... We get a lot of that here at the WINTER OLYMPICS!!!

But I am not a martini man.,... MIKES HARD LEMONADE.. AND SALMON.. LOTS AND LOTS OF SALMON...

As for finding ways of beating the tests... like i said, the pros up here know the tricks and know how to test for the tricks. Sketpisism is a fine quality, I have plenty of it. I applaud you on yours. But remember, fish and alcohol are great together.

You mistake my defense of Salt Lakes Bid for the olympics as blind faith in my fellow man. I dont trust anyone but Mark Gulbrandsen, and occasionally Brad Miller. Maybe Bob Maar but only when I am really drunk.

Bribery is when you pay a cop to not write a ticket, or when you pay a jury to find you not guilty, or to get a government contract. Buying the games as we did does not constitute bribery as the IOC is not a government agency nor does it answer to any government agency. It is the same when you go to the store and buy milk. For whatever reason you choose one brand over another, one kind over another. It isn't bribery, just good marketing on thier hand. All Salt Lake did is market our town better, using the necessary so called marketing techniques necessary to win over the customer, or the bid voters in this instance.

The same goes when there is only so many prints available of a movie. You have to prove to the studio why your theater is best for the run rather than another one. Same deal with the olympics. Just this time we had a better package to sell. So it came with perks for the voters.. so what? It wasnt wrong or immoral. By rules of business ethics, we did what was necessary, and not one person was harmed in the process.

That is until people all of the sudden decided it was wrong, and held up two people like they were the anti christs.

Besides, although I may be a member of this predominant church here, I think that they are as crooked as the next person, all of them are. When dealing with anyone, be prepared to start bleeding from the rear end.!!!

Dave

And yes I am quite proud of our town, we finally grew up and bought our way into the world!!! cant earn that right!!

Just so we're on a level playing field (so to speak) Here's the deffinition of Bribery out of Websters
"The act or practice of giving or accepting a bribe. Bribery of a public official is a felony. Money or any other valuable consideration given or promised with a view to corrupting the behavior of a person, esp. in that person's performance as an athlete, public official, etc."

And for Bribe....
(Includes deffinition above plus)
2.Anything given or serving to persuade or induce. (The children were given candy as a bribe to be good)
3. to give or promise a bribe to (They bribed the reporter to forget what he had seen)
4. to influence or corrupt by a bribe (The judge was to honest to be bribed)
etc etc

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

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And back to bribery, according to websters, then all parents should be locked away for all time. All parents are guilty of a felony, by bribing thier children with candy, or toys, or whatever.

There is a point where websters really must be left on the shelf.

It is true that millions were spent on public improvement and land development. The improvements were absolutely necessary. As for taxpayer dollars bieng used to fund the games, that isnt actually happening, other than the increased security, which was a by product of 9/11, not actually hosting the olympics.

From the olympics income, to actualy olypic related expenses, extracting necessary public improvements that would have happened in time anyway, Salt Lake had forcasted a small 38 million dollar shortfall, a far cry less than the 1.4 billion spent on the games.

To offset the loss, private donations have been made to cover the loss, making the games a zero balance deal.

It is true that the federal goverment put up nearly 1.7 billion dollars to Utah's improvements, and we are thankful, condidering that Utah never got jack squat for federal dollars in the past. We got a real freeway, light rail, more busses, and road improvements.

And Salt Lake becomes the new training center for not just the US winter olympians, but many other countries as well. The government owns most of the facilities used for the olympics, and will continue to operate them at a good profit level for the future, as the buildings are already paid for, once again by ticket sales, NBC broadcast rights, and company sponsorships.

Yes, I will agree that by definition bribery occurred. The indignations was started by people who were mainly confused as to how this quaint little mormon town got the olympics. No one seemed confused how Nagano japan got the games. They were a small farming community with one road. But that was ok, because the country of japan spent nearly 2 billion dollars of goverment money, 1.2 billion of it never recouped, to get the games there. Is that by definition corruption? More like stupidity.

Most people thought it was dumb to try to get the games because for every winter games city it was a financial disaster. Salt lake having been the largest winter city to host the games, was in a far better position to put on a games that would not lose money.

Yes there was collusion going on, in order to win the games. But the fact that a host city was willing to basically put out the front money for facilities does not mean that this was wrong or illegal. The fact that people were upset at it also means nothing. I remind you of the salem witch hunt of past. Everyone knew these people were witches, just because the majority said so. But in time like the salem deal, all about salt lake will be realized for what it was. A business deal. Nothing more, nothing less. The only shredding of evidence happened when people thought it was wrong when the accusations were made, only to find now that it was really not illegal after all, despite what a few, and I point out a few, people thought about it.

I do not mean to belittle that yes, collusion and bribery happened. But remember the extent of the damage, if any. Enron hurt thousands. The olympic bid we won didnt hurt anyone.

It is much like clinton and the sex scandal. Most reasonable people said "who cares". There are reasonable degrees of purgery, bribery, murder, speeding, whatever. using textbook examples takes out the human element.

I could go on and on, because I have plenty of time to be bored like this.

"Economic Impact: The state of Utah reports that the 2002 Games will provide significant economic benefits to Utah, including $2.8 billion in economic output,$9700 million in income to Utah workers and business owners, and $236 million in gross state and local government tax revenue." http://www.evcc.ut.net/olympics.html

That is what bribery is all about.......

As far as gold medals....If they're going to give out more than one first prize per event, what's the sense? Why not give everyone a gold medal? Then, everything will be very PC and no one will feel bad because they didn't win.
If the Russians didn't really win first place, take the damn thing away and give it to the ones that did. Geezus

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It has always been my feeling that one can achieve any thing or any sort of wage one desires in this great country, and in an honest way. Its that sort of negative thinking/statement that keeps the rank and file, and their wages where they are. Believe me, the rank and file wages are not going to shoot up to the 6 figure range on their own while they sit around and wait! Having spent the majority of my life in a much larger city where opportnitys were unlimited, I can attest to the fact that the opportunities out here in Utah/Salt Lake City are just as good as in the larger city, and in many ways even better.

Greg M.,
Alot of the big expense in this Olympics is due to the 911 event and the terrorist threat resulting in the extreme security we have here. Infact I am pretty sure that is the largest single expense of the games, costing far more than all the building expenses for all of the venues that were specially constructed for the games. Otherwise I think you'll find that the cost of the games is really no more than any of the others were.
Mark @ GTS