That article you refer to is now invalid. The report asked for by John McCain and compiled by the GAO turned out to be false in its accounting methods. It listed all expenses paid for by the federal goverment SINCE the games were awared, not directly related to current expenditures.

the report has been changed, and now Sen. John McCain refuses to comment on the new report. The new report shows that most of the expenses were not directly related to the olympics, but were awarded to utah to upgrade public facilities to bring us into the twentieth century, so we werent an outright embarassment when hosting the games.

Like I had said, yes, we did much to ge the games, and as a result, we got more federal goodies, goodies that would have gone somewhere, even if salt lake didnt get the games. It was money to be spent anyway, not new money raised by any new tax. It went for good cause, creating a better infrastructure for a pretty fine city that could never seem to get a fair shake from the federal dollars committee.

Now back to bribery, it wasnt like the olympics came to salt lake, and promised all kinds of kickbacks to the politicians if we spent billions on them. It was in fact the other way around. And there was no "hey if you give us the olympics, we will like give you free stuff". We gave them the free stuff long before the voting began. This time, our fifth try at it, we just happened to have the best goodies to give out.

Then again, maybe our tax dollars are best spent on the rock and roll hall of fame, rather than an interstate freeway system.

Tax dollars will get spent, and in this case, we got plenty to improve our infrastructure. Better this way than to keep building museums of natural grass roots beer drinking.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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p.s. Bob - I am united for the common good, although I'm not sure we may agree on what that is. My good includes not being blind to the obvious, or thinking my opinion is better because I have more posts and a picture. The program I'm with doesn't even like martinis, but good ol' beer. Not light beer, not some James Bond wannabe drink, but beer. And occasionally whiskey. Thank you, good day.

The real point is bieng missed here. Before I get to the real point, let me clarify that I am not blind to the obvoius because the olympics are involved. I am not as think as you dumb I am.

Jim Rome? This guy is a columnist on tv. Thats it, pure and simple. Might as well quote Rush Limbaugh when it comes to politics. You can read all the articles in the world that prove any point you want. Pure and simple, if you want to find something, you will if you look hard enough. You want to prove the West Memphis Three were satan worshipers, you can prove it. On the other hand, you can disprove it, IF you look for it. My point is, whatever you want to believe, you will believe that and that alone, unless you have a mind open enough to really seek and see the truth.

Here is what is commonly missed in this whole debate...

1. No force was brought to bear in the bid process.
2. Members of the IOC stood to gain nothing by awarding to SLC.
3. Freebies were exchanged during the process.
4. Nothing was promised or extorted by any party to get the games.
5. Gifts Were given. I give gifts to my daughter. So she will love me. I am guilty of just about every felony known to man.
6. No cash ever changed hands.
7. No promise of cash was ever made.
8. No public funds were used to get the bid.
9. No public funds were used directly to fund the olympics.
10. Taxpayer money did not go to waste.
11. No new tax was levied to pay for any infrastructure improvements.
12. I am not a daisy.

I think we get caught on definitions and forget to remember that varying degrees of definitions apply. To be upset at bribery as a whole does not take into account the thousands of varying degrees. If you put a dollar amount on the degree, then you lose the whole point. It isn't about the money, it is about the actual bribe, the human cost, and the outcome.

In this case, the actual bribe was gifts given well in advance. No IOC member gained any financial incentive by voting for salt lake. It is the same as when you shop for a car. Certain dealers will offer you differnt things JUST to get you in the door, not even tied to the purchase of the car. Free trips for test drives, happens all the time. Happens with furniture stores that give free lunch on weekends or radio stations that give away tickets and cd's when doing remotes. This is nothing new, nor illegal or even remotely immoral. The only negative implication was that this was SOMEHOW wrong. Poeple have been trying to create a new Watergate for years, but all falls short. YOu have to have proveable culpability, and in this case, none exists. Proven time and again, regardless of what any article of whatever columnist or writer may want you to believe.

The human cost is a positive one. Not one person was deprived of anything, not housing, not shelter, not food, not tax money, not retirement funds, not a penny. In fact the benefit to the state and its citizens are great, and all not yet even realized.

The outcome, no loss. And a futurous gain. Sure there are problems with judging, and hopefully changes will come. The investigation is not over in the judging scandal, just this chapter of it. The IOC wants the press to concentrate on the games as they happen, not spend all thier time on the scandal that happened with the judging. Do we want to take away from the individual glory that these atheletes trained thier whole lives for, just so we can continue to rip into the IOC on judging? It will continue to investigate, AFTER the games finish. Let the atheletes have thier day, then the judges will have thiers too.

I do recall that another bid city in the USA was also guilty of bribing the voting members of the IOC at the same time SLC was. However they happened to shred nearly 2000 pages of documents just in time to prevent any real accounting of what was given. The head of this bid city, now is on the chair of the USOC. Nice payback for keeping the scandal in SLC and not letting is spread to, I forget where it was, washington, or oregan, cant recall the state now.

Hey, mormons are as crooked as anyone, but bieng crooked and committing a crime are two different things. Plenty of innocents get caught up in criminal behavior, and I know plenty of crooked people who are too afraid of getting caught, so they keep thier hands clean.

The difference between guilt and innocence, is a matter of timing.

And why no picture chad? Hey I am an ugly fart, and even I got one up here. It took a death threat by bob to do it too.

Ps... not blind. Perfect 20/125 vision.

Your right he is ripping my Martini to pieces...know what that leaves more for me.

I wonder what has been added to the water in his city. It is too bad that he seems to have a great deal of pent up anger at life in general. I have lived long enough to realise that change of any kind takes a great deal of time. The world that I grew up in, no longer exists. they 40's and the 50's were a great time to grow up. Yes, I can recall getting under my desk in school when the sirens sounded and watching neighbors build bomb shelter's in the back yards. They becme great hide outs later on.

Family always came first for me and I think it does for you. I would not trade one moment, I plainly have no regrets. I chose to enjoy the Olympics, and most major sporting events. I enjoy my children who are all grown and have their own families and the very best part of life is the Grand Children...it's pure love.

Well, I'm not going to change Chad and he is not going to change me. I will go downstairs now and watch the Olympic Ski Jumping and have a Beefeater Gin Gibson Straight - up. Yes I will have one for Chad.

Somewhere in this series of posts it was mentioned that with so many people saying its so, there must be some truth to it. And also with so many people high up with news shows and the such reporting it as so, there must be some truth to it.

Being black history month, I have been watching much on the subject. It does bring to mind a time in our country when slavery was not just legal, it was expected. With so many people saying so, there must have been some truth to it bieng ok to own black people. However, with time passed, you will be hard pressed to find too many people willing to say that now. In fact, last I heard, they could vote, run for office, even own a home. It takes time for people to realize that just because so many people say so, doesn't actually make it so. In fact, last I remember from school, our country was built on the premise that an individual was entitled to a fair trial in front of a jury of his peers. The people responsible got that, and the judge threw it all out, because no crime had been committed. No matter whatever columnist or sports guy may say.

I have my own opinions, I express them loudly, I just dont have my own show to do it on. And if I did, would I be listened to as if I knew it all?

Hey brad, maybe we can get a film tech radio show. Just a little internet radio broadcast show. We could rant and rave about how much we all love our friend and god... george lucas.

Dave

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